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Stocks all over the world are continuing a major down slide....Many blue-chip stocks in the US are now worth less than a dollar!

Industrial production is also de-accelerating. The US is down almost 4%, Germany 8%, Japan 12% and Korea a whopping 20%.

Unemployment is also rising everywhere as well as government debt to national GDP.

Almost all the biggest global banks are basically insolvent.

Hard to believe we'll get out of this in a short time.


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The following comments are for "More Collapse"
by gamblerman

sorry this is soooooooooo long.....
Unemployment for february in the states was 8.3 percent, higest since 1982. Thats up about 1 percent from Jan. 651,000 american jobs were slashed, making this the record third month in a row seeing an over 600,000 jobs lost here at home. Today in america there are over 12.5 million unemployed people, a number which is up from the 7.7 million 4 year low recorded in 2005.
With a record unemployment rate growing at a rather steady 600,000 citizens a month, and a global recession thats gonna start burning in the spring (see refrences) it's no wonder the American War College is preparing for riots already.

____________________________________
(Unemployment)
http://www.thesunsfinancialdiary.com/charts/february-2009-unemployment-rate-81-highest-25-years-chart-day/

http://money.cnn.com/2005/07/08/news/economy/jobs_june/index.htm

http://www.aflcio.org/issues/jobseconomy/jobs/jobcrisis.cfm

(Riots)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11473

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/12/15/daily34.html

(Summer of Dread)
http://gunnyg.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/us-army-to-buy-6-million-of-riot-equipment-obama-plans-to-crush-citizen-protests-this-summer/

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=c3837a37b31551986ad018cb3b47040a&tab=core&_cview=1&cck=1&au=&ck=

( Posted by: roach [Member] On: March 14, 2009 )

Uh...
We'll get through it. We have another 30 years of relative prosperity. After that there will be no war college or America to speak of and by 2150 there won't be any humans....

GM

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 14, 2009 )

dunno
i dunno bout that, obama is putting a missile defense shield around russia, last year they told us that was a big no-no...

( Posted by: roach [Member] On: March 14, 2009 )

Who Cares....
GM

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 14, 2009 )

@ gamblerman
I think everyone cares, but I think as a collective whole, everyone here and everywhere else is sick of the gloom and doom we're bombarded with on a daily basis.

It's traumatic stress, you know?

Ochani

( Posted by: OchaniLele [Member] On: March 14, 2009 )

Hi Stewart

No, the US and the world have only till 2050. That's 40 years. Then a dark ages like the world of Mad Max.

By 2150 I was talking about the human species.

This fractal geometry is pretty gruesome. I make good money off it, but it also describes much deeper things.

GM

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 14, 2009 )

Uh...

The Mayan stuff is not bullshit, but it cannot compete with mathematical fractal theory....

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 14, 2009 )

stress!
I thought I'd add my bit of noise to the din. I may well be that GM is right but if left with what action to take in my life now - I choose a more upbeat path.

Certainly the world looks dim and scary, it always has. There has been no point in history that some overhanging enormous tragedy was not emminent - whether natural or manmade. Life sucks and you make the best of the part you're given.

Thirty years ago I remodeled a biologist's home (name not important to the tale) My brother and I were having a doom and gloom conversation very much like those going on here. Those that remember the days of Jimmy Carter know that it was egually as difficult as it is today. Anyway - the man/scientist overheard us and asked us to come in to his lab. He picked up a petri dish full of some redish ooze. His remarks on the specimen stayed with me- "The culture in this dish have a constant supply of norishment. You can say the colony is living well- making a good living. It will grow unabated until it hits the 'mountains' at the edge of the dish. It will attempt to climb those steep walls - it will fail. Then the whole colony will die choking on it's own excrement. We can not excogitate our way out of our little round blue petri dish.

The world tried rock and roll to feed 5 million hungry in Africa - twenty years later there are 9 million now starving.Economic difficulties aside, we breed - just like the extinct mold in that long ago petri dish. One self-aggrandizing group ponficating their choice to only have one or two children does in no way effect ths couple in Brazil that will have ten.
They say:

Oh it's their religion - proof that religion is the opiate of the masses!
-Oh it's your arrogance and your godless wealthy lives that makes you selfish.
- Oh you bad people cut down your rain forests
- Oh you buy our wood to build your 10,000 foot house on the edge of a protected forest.


Who of us is blameless? How dare any of us claim to be 'righteous' in any of our opinions. (But have them I still do - a thing true about humans.) The light of truth only shines where it is convenient -

All this hoopla is a symptom of a difficult reality. The number of people out of work during the depression was paltry compared to the numbers out of work now.

We can argue making ourselves feel good about how smart and correct our side of the argument is - compared to those stupid -ridiculous others. The real problem is both sides of both arguments make no difference toward a viable solution.

'Bush is this and Obama is that" talk in the media is just entertainment - hyberbole. I pray to God (no apology for my faith) that Obama does a good job, I am certainly more conservative than he, but I believe he will - and one good job he can do is to raise our spirits and not spew the 'doom and gloom' so popular in the media. We, as writers, know that drama sells. It sells because the reader is safe while they read. We don't feel safe - Bush used fear of terror to expand government and now Obama is using it to push his more liberal agenda and expand government. No shock there! (Government as petri dish?)

The psychology of the human herd is important - we are running fast enough to the edge of our petri dish - 2012 from a rouge planet, 2150 as Gm offers or 3010 from who knows. Let's just roll up our sleeves and survive. I ask the President of a great nation to lift our spirits even if it is difficult times. We humans have always proved resiliant. I believe in us.
Thanks all for the lively read.
Ken

( Posted by: jonpenny [Member] On: March 14, 2009 )

Hi Ken

The petri dish metaphor is a good one. I believe that even though I will not see the end in 2150 in this particular body. I will see it in a different one because of my Buddhist leanings.

My meditation practice alerts me everyday to the existence of my invisible protectors who don't need bodies and live in a higher realm where mind and synchronicity rule....

This makes me optimistic inwardly where things really count.

Outwardly things come and things go....

Obama can only do so much and whoever gets elected in 2016 will take credit for the green boom coming that will last thirty years.

After that....

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 14, 2009 )

Mayans vs. Math: A scriptural parable
Our reading today is from the Gospel of Bwian -

"ARTHUR: He has given us a sign!
FOLLOWER: Oh!
SHOE FOLLOWER: He has given us... His shoe!
ARTHUR: The shoe is the sign. Let us follow His example.
SPIKE: What?
ARTHUR: Let us, like Him, hold up one shoe and let the other be upon our foot, for this is His sign, that all who follow Him shall do likewise.
EDDIE: Yes.
SHOE FOLLOWER: No, no, no. The shoe is...
YOUTH: No.
SHOE FOLLOWER: ...a sign that we must gather shoes together in abundance.
GIRL: Cast off...
SPIKE: Aye. What?
GIRL: ...the shoes! Follow the Gourd!
SHOE FOLLOWER: No! Let us gather shoes together!
FRANK: Yes.
SHOE FOLLOWER: Let me!
ELSIE: Oh, get off!
YOUTH: No, no! It is a sign that, like Him, we must think not of the things of the body, but of the face and head!
SHOE FOLLOWER: Give me your shoe!
YOUTH: Get off!
GIRL: Follow the Gourd! The Holy Gourd of Jerusalem!
FOLLOWER: The Gourd!
HARRY: Hold up the sandal, as He has commanded us!
ARTHUR: It is a shoe! It is a shoe!
HARRY: It's a sandal!
ARTHUR: No, it isn't!
GIRL: Cast it away!
ARTHUR: Put it on!
YOUTH: And clear off!
SHOE FOLLOWER: Take the shoes and follow Him!
GIRL: Come,...
FRANK: Yes!
GIRL: ...all ye who call yourself Gourdenes!"

So sayeth the Book of Bwian.

( Posted by: LinnieRed [Member] On: March 14, 2009 )

@ Gamblerman
Can you describe how mathematical fractal theory fits into all this in layman's terms?

I know the world is a mess, but I just don't see it all going bust in 2012. What little I do know about the Mayans tells me this: On December 22, 2012, they would be partying like crazy because they survived another cycle.

Ochani

( Posted by: OchaniLele [Member] On: March 16, 2009 )

Uh....

Stewart,

First the world is NOT going to come to an end in 2012. A major boom will start in 2020 then....

A dark ages will start in 2050.

Nuke war, Mad Max life-style....end of most nations as we know them. Population collapse.

But humans will go on.

Then a new BOOM in 2100 and finally extinction in 2150.

All based on Elliot Wave theory discovered in the 1930's by R.N. Elliot who studied market charts and found out the DNA of markets.

The theory of fractals was unknown at the time, but the underlying mathematics was in place. With computers fractals were at last discovered and put through their paces.

Elliot also discovered that the golden mean ratio was connected to these basic patterns repeating themselves over and over over bigger time frames.

My friend GN is the world's top Elliot expert.

That's how we are making a killing shorting the market right now.

M

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 16, 2009 )

OK
Go ahead...

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 16, 2009 )

@ Gamblerman
What do those theories show the solution to all this to be?

Ochani

( Posted by: OchaniLele [Member] On: March 16, 2009 )

Uh...

These are not theories. These are descriptions of natural forces that cannot be stopped.

Like hurricanes.

Earthquakes.

Most scientists are in the dark about Elliot Wave.



M

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 16, 2009 )

Uh...
Sounds rudimentary....but my sources say each Baktun is aprox 5000 years....

But the Elliot fractal has its own logic.

It's over for humans in 141 years.

Last economic boom starts in 10 years.

Dark Ages begin in 40 years.

Final boom begins 91 years.

M

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 16, 2009 )

our sources...

You are correct about the Baktun span of time. We are thinking about the larger cycle...which has a different name.

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 16, 2009 )

Mayan/Elliot Translation


Next Boom starts in 1/2 katun

Dark Ages begins in 2 katuns

Last major boom starts in 4 1/2 katuns

End of humans in 3/5 baktun or 7 katuns

Mayans were bloody, but Aztecs more.


( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 16, 2009 )

Dunno....

I'm Buddhist....but these archetypes are fractals and they are recursive....

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 16, 2009 )

Well....

I suggest you dig deep into my profile here at Lit.org and dig up meso-american vibrations.... a collection of short stories of my travels in Mexico, Guatemala, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica....

M

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 16, 2009 )

@ Everyone
It has been a good discussion, but, I just don't know about all this you guys.

These "theories" or "descriptions" of natural forces seem overly fatalistic. To me, they also seem narcissitic.

I'm glad they don't mention "the end of the world." Because, truly, if the human race was wiped out, the world would not end. We would end. The earth is an organism who lives on a life-cycle that far outstrips our own. And I believe that whether or not humans "survive," life itself will go on in some form. That is the nature of life.

We're not bacteria in a petri dish. We are living in complex ecosystem with more checks and balances than we will ever know. If the earth were to get to the point that it could not sustain us, humans would die off. True. But the other processes would kick in and cleanse what we'd done over a span of time, and some new species would arise to take our place. It is the nature of evolution.

I hate to bring "magick" into all this, but one magician whose work I used to be into once said this, "The genius of a nation will change its very environment." Well, that's a paraphrase. The more doom and gloom we look for, the more we'll find. If we program all these fatalistic designs into the collective unconscious, it's only a matter of time before we manifest those collectively.

I'm not saying we should all join hands and sing, "kumbayah," (I didn't spell that right . . . I've never sung that song, just so everyone knows), but if nothing else, the spectre of looming death and extinction for all of us should teach us just how prescious life is. Make you days, and our collective days, if they truly are numbered, count. Tread lightly. Recycle. Use public transportation. Eat low on the food scale if you can. Love each other. Try to leave the world a better place than when you found it. And treat yourselves, and each other, well.

My guess is we will all make it through this somehow. And when we do, we'll look back on all the crap we went through, and laugh.

But what do I know? I'm just a very uneducated optimist.

Ochani

( Posted by: OchaniLele [Member] On: March 17, 2009 )

Uh...
You forgot UFO intervention.....

;)

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 17, 2009 )

hmmmm
i think the deciding factor on mankind's evolution or destruction is us, and our group mentality, like Ochani (my Godfather) said. If there are these prophecies in every cycle, and the major prophecies regard major changes inauspiciously, then its our awareness and conciousness that will decide on which side of the fence the prediction lands.
The end of the world is just modern english for what was known in the days of prophets as cataclysmic change, cure for aids, resetting of our conciousness towards others, destruction of unfair trading and exploitation, these are just as cataclysmic to the current mindframe, and the people who perpetuate and profit from it; as nuclear annialation is to the mass indebted populace.
There is one energy, cant be created or destroyed, we are smart enough to be able to not only chart this energy (divination, magick, prophecy) but also to manipulate it (cities, technology). Imagine if we could convince ourselves that we can switch our mindframe, and thereby switch the use of this cosmic energy and how we project it into our world. Then the next mayan cycle, or the re-setting of the calander, would open a new page in our history, where one could even say that christ had returned, and was ruling.
Sorry for the jesus plug instead of maitrea or messiah :) Thats my 2 cents

( Posted by: roach [Member] On: March 24, 2009 )

Uh...
Elliot Wave is not a prophecy....

( Posted by: gamblerman [Member] On: March 24, 2009 )

hmmm
Oh, i apologize gamblerman. I was thought that there was more then just Elliott Wave going on in the replies to your musings on the stock market. Umm, yeah, I'd say he isn't?

( Posted by: roach [Member] On: March 26, 2009 )





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