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I heard an analogy today...

"Uhhh imagine if Canada were
launchin rockets into Michigan
We would defend ourselves right?"

Yes we would...but like so many times before
apples and oranges cannot be compared...

Hammas launching rockets into Israel is more
like Iraqi insurgents launching rockets into
the Green Zone...Would the Occupying American Soldiers
react to defend themselves and American interests...yes...

This is Tigers fighting Rats...Palestine is not Canada...
This is kids throwing rocks vs. tanks...

I know the bible and the koran have fucked this region for good...
but since scriptural claims have been used to create this mess...

Hows it feel being Goliath this time homeys??? How does it feel???

let my people go and all that...

Apples and Oranges my friends...

Apples and Oranges...

------
Terence Patrick Burns


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The following comments are for "FREE PALESTINE"
by kilgoretrout

free "dem" fighters
I watched CNN today while I was getting my oil changed and radiator flushed and filled, so I had no choice but to watch it. Couldn't believe my ears, some big goon sitting there all important like Charles Gibson, demanding of the Israeli diplomat to the United Nations an answer to the question..."Do you think it is fair that only 17 Israelis have been killed when at least 300 Palestinians have?"
It just doesn't get any more moronic than that.

( Posted by: robnjop [Member] On: December 29, 2008 )

Yes, Tigers vrs. rats
I absolutely agree that this is Tigers fighting rats. The rats have produced homemade rockets that crash down on innocent civilians, rockets that are made to create terror among unarmed people, rockets that are fired early in the morning as children wind their way to school.

The rats keep demanding free food, free gas, free medical supplies, free, free, free. The rats demand the freedom to kill innocent civilians while anything they don't get for free is "collective punishment."

The rats don't tell the Tigers the hiding places of the rocket factories. The rats don't tell the Tigers who is shooting the rockets. The rats send their children to stand at the rocket shooting site so the Tigers will not fire to avoid harming children. The rats are complaining cowards and nothing more.

When some Tigers stole G-d given land from other Tigers in gaza and turned it over to the rats for free, the rats turned the land from a garden of plenty where food was exported to Europe into a forest of rocket launchers aimed at the Tigers.

Yes, this is a battle of the rats against the Tigers, I could not have said it better.

( Posted by: TheBlond [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

All I know is . . .
. . . things are bad out there right now . . . things are very bad.

Ochani

( Posted by: OchaniLele [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

TheBlond
YEAH!! THAT"S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!! You go girl.

Terence...meet theblond.

( Posted by: robnjop [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

Nice and slow
taht's how I like my genocide. None of the shock of hundreds of thousands killed etc. Nah. Nice and slow, control the media, and use teh Holocaust as the ultimate argument backup.
It's a shame that folks that were near the brink of literal extermination are seeking the same for any other...
and how many of those basically rewired bottle rockets have killed civilians compared to LASER GUIDED BOMBS and M1 Abramas tanks...

( Posted by: Robert Walker [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

Nice and slow?
I just don't know how you can read a response like TheBlond wrote, and still say something like you just said. Your mind is made up so she shouldn't bother you with the facts I guess.

And you have made the same argument the big pompous goon did on CNN. That being that Israel shouldn't respond because not to many of them are being killed. So let these terrorists spread their terror. How would you like to live in a place where at any moment the possibility of an explosive rocket hitting you or your family existed? Would you really be so tolerant of that. I doubt it, I bet you wouldn't even put up with the neighborhood kids shooting pop bottle rockets over your house during the 4th.

And just what media news do the Israelis control? It is all about those poor Palestinians and those horrible Israelis.

There is ONE TRUTH here. That is that Israel gave them what they asked for and left them to live in peace. But peace is the last thing these terrorists want.

And you all can want Israel to be gone all you want, but Israel will never be gone. And as long as you fight by word or deed to remove Israel, you are fighting against the very God of Heaven, who said that as long as the sun and moon exist, Israel will not cease to be a nation.

( Posted by: robnjop [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

blondnrobnjop
"And you all can want Israel to be gone all you want, but Israel will never be gone. And as long as you fight by word or deed to remove Israel, you are fighting against the very God of Heaven, who said that as long as the sun and moon exist, Israel will not cease to be a nation."

Good job you just defined the entire problem in these words right here...insane idiots on both sides extrapolating what an invisible man in the sky wants them to do....

Yes Hammas sucks...but keep in mind they are a defensive violent organization much like the IRA in Ireland...created out of oppression and occupation...whatever u think about their methods if they did not exist maybe the Palestinians would be getting screwed even worse by the self-entitled Zionists right now...

I have a solution to this problem...Make Islam and Judaism and Christianity illegal...or at least ban the Bible and the Koran...

Let freedom and sanity reign...

How to greet a muslim....Ass-alam-ilike-him
How to greet a jew....Lick-high-kim
How to greet a Christian...Go-fucka-youself

The Big Three Must Be Stopped Before They Kill Us All...

( Posted by: kilgoretrout [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

Terence
First of all I don't think it is right to say that my views are TheBlonds views. You shouldn't label her as an "insane idiot". As for me though, I accept it with amusement. I actually relish in it.

And to just have a conversation for a minute, (I have no desire to get into one of our episodes as I know you don't either) it is not what I think an invisible man wants me to do. That is the point. I don't have to do anything, I don't do anything, other than pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

Don't you see Terence, the difference?

It is what God does. I wasn't there in 1948 manipulating the powers to be. It is out of our hands.

So what is so dangerous about what I am doing? Why is that a problem? How does that make trouble for anyone, that I believe?

And the Jews? They only want to live in peace. They have made concession after concession, and to what avail? So I am asking you, what was so dangerous about what Israel did? How did that make trouble for anyone, giving the Palestinians what they wanted and disregard their rockets for a time?

It brings us to the true insanity. Islam. Now there is a people that believe they have to do something. There is a people who believe in action, and who feel it is their job to extrapolate "what an invisible man in the sky wants them to do".

And there is the one you have chosen to defend.

The Palestinians are pawns. Of all the Islamic world they are the ones I could feel for in the situation. They are used by the rest of the Islamic world as an excuse to keep tensions high.
They are too weak to drive out the terrorists that occupy their land (Islamic terrorists).

Anyway, sorry you feel so threatened by the threatening Christians and Jews. Everywhere they go beheading and burning and demanding. It's a shame.

( Posted by: robnjop [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

Ironic
How can Israel desire peace when their Air Force makes practice bombing runs through the plains of Meggido?
If your God is all powerful and all knowing why do you need nuclear weapons and the Mossad?

( Posted by: Robert Walker [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

insaneidiots
i was actually referring to the pinheads over in the middle east as insane idiots...and if u took it personally all the better for presuming to know what god the creator of the universe thinks and wants because you read it in a book of childrens fairy tales "the bible"...and as far as muslims being crazy and jews and christians being not crazy...that just makes you plain crazy...

( Posted by: kilgoretrout [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

more crazy talk
I didn't take it personal at all. I understand you enough to know you believe all religions equally insane, except buddhism. Which I don't understand why that particular one is ok. There is more faith required for that than for Christianity.

But never mind that. One point that is interesting that you make is that, in your mind it seems, it is crazy to believe one can know what God thinks.

Bible verses that come to mind about this is..."He that made the eye, can He not see? He that made the ear, can He not hear?" That is close anyway to what it says.

So don't you think that He that made man an understanding being would communicate. He that gives man the ability to know, allow Himself to be known?

( Posted by: robnjop [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

Torah
The islamists claim to believe in the Jewish 5 books of the Bible, the Torah. G-d gives ALL of the land of Israel to the Jews. He doesn't once mention land for Russia or land for Europeans or even land for American natives, not one mention of land for anyone but the Jews. Not the whole world for the Jews mind you, just Israel, and no mention of any other land for any other people.

If you believe the Jewish sages, the problems do come from the Jews. From the Jews not keeping kosher, from the Jews not keeping the Sabbath holy, from the Jews not keeping all the laws of Judaism that they are required to keep. So G-d give the Jews problems, including massive pogroms such as the Holocaust.

If all the Jews followed all the rules of their religion, there would be no war with the "palestinians" as they would be off in some other land, not in Israel. Would you expect G-d not to give the Jews problems when there are Jews in Jerusalem eating pork and driving to work on the Sabbath? So yes, G-d gives the Jews problems like rockets on civilians and expects them to deal with it in the hope they will come back and be totally ethical Jews who will live in peace.

I don't expect that to happen in my lifetime, but someday the Jews will return to keeping all the laws of Judaism and there will be peace in the world. Until then, it is the job of the Jews to separate out as best they can those who seek to kill all the Jews from those who wish to live in peace and deal with them appropriately.

Trust me, Israel could have wiped out 99% of the millions of population of gaza in one day if that had been what they wanted. No, a few hundred dead terrorists and unfortunately some dozen innocents paid the price, not millions.

How many of you know that the "palestinians" have the death penalty and enforce it often while Israel has no death penalty. Nor does Israel chop of the hands of people nor stone them to death as is prescribed and carried out by islamic terrorists. The terrorists are still living in the 12th century with beliefs created by a pedophile terrorist polygamist. With such a start how will they ever become civilized, truth is they can't.

( Posted by: TheBlond [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

more crazy talk
Oyyyy take your torah and stick up your kibbutz...Thats the problem..why should your fantasy world of god talking to you inflict such harm on the rest of the world..that not only goes for you but the crazy muslims and ropnmop and his gang of cross wearers too...

We should round all you religious folks up and shoot you to the moon so you can all dig and dig and dig for your precious metaphor..im sure one day you will find him...

( Posted by: kilgoretrout [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

robnmop?
you're mean and you've hurt my feelings

(runs off sobbing like little girl)

not really

( Posted by: robnjop [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

Humorous
It's funny the words used. I pay attention to that, maybe moreso than most.
YHWH "gave" the land to the Jews, rather the Israelites...
problem with that is that I counted them. "Them" being how many Moses and friends killed because their genocidal god told them to.
I got up to Deutoronomy and counted 24 million.
I stopped there.
True enough that Israel could wipe out 100% of the West Bank, which explains my previous comment of liking my genocide nice and slow.
The arrogance of monotheists really comes through literally everytime they talk.
But the word civilized cracks me up as well. Is America civilized? Israel?
You don't seriously desire to get into that discussion.. lol seriously.
I'm off to twist my dredel whilst I transubstatiate, facing East. (think I can't?)

( Posted by: robert walker [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

civilized
I am truly curious Robert, what is civilized to you? What is a civilized response to an act of aggression in your eyes?

( Posted by: robnjop [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

Anything less would be...Civilized
Hmm let's see. That's actually a good question. Perhaps Och will make that an essay for a future write off.
There are three ways we could go about it I suppose.
1. Use existing civilizations (and those of the past) as a paradigm within which to operate.
2. Use theoreticals to create one's own world.
3. Use the fall back of "Man's Natural State".
I'll go for the second if that's ok, but using the first as a paradigm of how not to do it.
The old ways of basing a nation (or empire) on common identity is false if those perceieved identities lie within a religion.
Because of the mututal exclusivity of the big three (Islam, Judaism, and Christianity)they each are aimed to each other's destruction. IE: My god's dork is bigger than your false gods' dork. Our way is the only path etc. This is evident in the posts made by yourself and Blonde Rob. So basing my civilization on ANY theology is not only dangerous but it goes against the very nature of humanity. So I would 86 religion right off the bat.
Justice would not be bought in my civilization, nor could the amount of anything you have determine that you are an untouchable by law. Laws apply to everyone or they should just be tossed as ineffective means of control. This is one reason why religions can transcend empire's lifespans. In that while an emperor can punish you bodily, even kill you. The rules "we" adhere to go far beyond that and are much scarier prospects than living and dying in a box.
Now, to more directly answer your question Rob.
In the context of modern day Israel they should treat the Palestinians like humans. They should reflect the ideals of their own mutually exclusive religion, but in truth they do. They, as "gods" chosen people are basically allowed to do whatever they want and they have.
It truly confounds me that American Christians completely forget the last...two milenia of their own oppression twoards Jews. They are, after all, the Jesus killers. This line was used time and again to murder steal from and generally oppress Jews.
The bottom line of this whole mess is manifold. America's stance in the matter is what is REALLY making life difficult. As we sell arms to both sides (again) in a pseudo-religious war, we're selling our children's future ability to produce ANY sort of diplomatic end to mass slaughter. I wonder if the American Indians ever wanted THEIR ancient ancestral lands back... I wonder how well that would go over considering there were much more of them killed during their genocide than Jews during the Holocaust.
Don't get me wrong. Genocide PERIOD is about as evil as it gets. But the eye for an eye logic (also biblically based)is what has fueled this fire.
Hope that answered your question, though I doubt it was the one you were looking for.
So my philosophy can be summed up in "do unto others as you'd have them do to you"

( Posted by: robert walker [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

question remains
I'm sorry Robert, but you didn't answer my question at all. The question was what is a civilized response to a serious act of aggression?

And why you would insult her by calling her blond rob I don't know. I don't know her and she doesn't know me.

And why you bring up that SOME people who call themselves Christians hated the Jewish people I don't know. My Bible teaches me to love them, to support them, to pray for them.

And I am glad to see your philosophy came from Jesus.

I am not a lover of war. But I do have an interest in the question of war. Is it always wrong? Is it sometimes necessary? Is it sin? Is it Gods will sometimes?

That is why I asked the question, what is a civilized response to aggression. Surely we are not to, as a nation, just lay our necks on the block for the muslims. I know as individual believers there is a time to do just that, but God sets up nations and brings them down as He wills. Were we to just lie down for the Nazis? Or the Japanese?

But no, you didn't even come close to answering the question. Let me make it easy for you. I am all the evil you make me out to be (now this is hypothetical). I come to your house with a sword, sharp sharp sword. I see your nice family sitting around, all your children, your wife. I look at you and say, "this day you will swear allegiance to God, or I will slice your head off, from the youngest to the eldest." What is the civilized thing for you to do Robert?

( Posted by: robnjop [Member] On: December 30, 2008 )

Silly
To begin I didn't insult anyone.
Her name is blond without the E at the end. I apologize for leaving a letter out. ;)
I never wrote SOME people hated Jews. It's a well known fact of history that Jews have been called Jesus killers, and that logic was used to slaughter them etc. These were mainly Christians that did it. Your apologetics mean nothing.
Your bible teaches you something the very same book teaches someone else something completely different.
I feel that it's assenine to use your god's will as a measure of anyting rising or falling at his whim. If your all loving god cared a whit about his children he'd do something about the creation he screwed up in the first place. I'm not impressed by your god's lack of omniscience.
So.... if I'm reading your words correctly, and applying your religion to those words... you believe in killing others, yet your religion wants you to NOT kill them but pray for them? or
are you allowed to kill people in certain circumstances? Your religion is chock full of contradictions, that being one of them.
I appreciate you making things easy for me, but I can do without the condescendence Kthx.
The point you're trying to make using your theoretical situation has nothing to do with the issue at hand, and so since it's not relevant pick another.
My own analogy of the American Indians wanting their land back is perfect.
but if it's threats you enjoy, pick up a sword yourself and find out.
;) You will find your taxes paid for some serious anatomical knowledge.

( Posted by: Robert walker [Member] On: December 31, 2008 )

question answered? maybe?
The Bible teaches the same thing to all people. Some people twist the scriptures, unfortunately just reading the Bible doesn't remove all propensity to evil. Truth must be sought and desired. We must die to our own desires and thoughts. But there is no lack or fault in the Bible.

And where did you get that I believe in killing others? I plainly said "I do have an interest in the question of war. Is it always wrong? Is it sometimes necessary? Is it sin? Is it Gods will sometimes?". Those are questions I have. Surely you have asked yourself the same.

Threats? Are you serious?

And I can only assume that your cryptic last sentence is some sort of answer to that question. Can't you just admit, that if somebody entered your house to do bodily harm to you and your family, and you had a gun, and you could not flee, that you would blow their head off and that it would be a perfectly civilized thing to do?

( Posted by: robnjop [Member] On: December 31, 2008 )

SURE THING!
To begin since your theoretical situation basically begged me to kill another I saw it as the loaded question that is was.
There's no fault in teh bible eh?
So you support slavery, human sacrifice, AND genocide? Realy?
and there's nothing cryptic about what I wrote. "I'll make it easy for you."
I'm a former AD Marine, and Soldier.
You're taxes paid for me to learn the things I know, and wish I could forget. I have to know, and since I've asked questions that haven't been answered try and answer it.
Have you served in ANY military branch? No the air force doesn't count, nor does the coast guard.
and in real life if my HOME my domicile were broken into the perpatrator would be cut down before he could smell the gingerbread cookies.
I know you're smiling at that sickening response. But you see the difference is, I'm not a christian.
I assume you are and you should be ashamed that you smiled.

( Posted by: robert walker [Member] On: December 31, 2008 )

dagger
Since it's obvious you have no clue what you're talking about AND are prejudicial (through no fault of your own) I'll leave your... silliness alone.

( Posted by: Robert Walker [Member] On: December 31, 2008 )

RW
"To begin since your theoretical situation basically begged me to kill another I saw it as the loaded question that is was."

No Robert, my question was loaded to make you admit to what I knew was true, that your words of blame toward Israel were hypocritical.

And if you think I would enjoy the death of any man, well, you just don't know me.

I don't even smile at my useless victory here, I just don't understand where peoples hatred of all things God come from.

( Posted by: robnjop [Member] On: December 31, 2008 )

HappyOutThunkYear
Yeahhhhh almost 2009 and we were all sooooo damn clever werent we???? Happy Out Thunk You Year...now a song if I may indulge...

Just like like the PLO she gave me some good blow...We got HIIIGGGHHHHH like the birds...she came cloooossseeee to absurd...we laughed about bombs and rockets and suuuccchhhhh...just more fireworks for God to tooouuuccchhhhh...We got hiiiiiggghhh as the skkkyyyyy...sheeee threw some Anthrax in my eyyeeeeeee...What a fuuuucckkkkiinnnn biiiitttttcccchhhh....OH I cant wait till I gets my revengeeeeeeeeeee...


Happy New Year Everybody...whether your a jew or a mooslim...whether Jesus makes you hard or Ganesh is your Bodyguard...Happy Neeeewwwww Yeeeeaaaarrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

( Posted by: kilgoretrout [Member] On: December 31, 2008 )





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