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After the 26/11 attacks , a backlash has been building against India's entire political class. In city after city ,people in their hundreds of thousands ,have been holding politicians primarly responsible ,for having left the country open to such attacks .

Our national media ,that reaches into untold millions of homes ( more than the population of UK , France and 'Chhermany' put together )has been openly carrying diatribes such as 'politicians are the real terrorists' . One commentator even went so far as to label politicians as "elected political terrorists'. ( So much for your 'democrasu ' GWB.)

I don't know if many here are aware of how inhumanly savage and lethally effective these Pakistani 'special ops ' attackers were.

Some incredibly telling examples of their effectiveness and their brutality ( equalling if not surpassing those of Hitler's SS ) :

1. One of the very first things these Pakis did was to wipe out three of Mumbai's top cops - and I'm talking about the very top.

This would be the equivalent of killing off London or NY's Commissioners of police and two of their immediate deputies . In one fell swoop.

3. The carnage they perpetrated in both the hotels and in the main Railway terminus ( larger than London's Victoria, Waterloo and King's Cross put together - or NY's Grand Central ) was horrific. They spared no one - not the women, nor the children ,and infants, and certainly not the aged and infirm.

Some of the accounts would be heart-rending - especially had it related to the murder of Westerners.(But faceless 'brownies' -ah well that's mere 'co-lateral damage'.)

4. Perhaps this account of their carnage might hit closer to home.

Two of these Pakis specifically targeted and attacked a 150 year old Chabad -Lubavitch centre in the heart of Mumbai . Here ,they ended up massacring 6 Israelis . And believe you me these were not simple cases of 'point and shoot' - or spray . The rabbi and his young pregnant wife were singled out by them for a very gruesome death by torture.

Has the West learnt any lesson from this . Not bloody likely .

To Westerners,it seems , terrorism becomes terrorism only when it takes place on their 'hallowed' ground. Else ,it's merely some kind of internecine strife , involving the 'brownies' . Which most tend to turn their noses up at - and move on to 'better' things.

In recent times ,one has ,more than once , come across the following lines by Niemoller principally in the Western media:

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didnít speak up because I wasnít a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didnít speak up because I wasnít a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didnít speak up because I wasnít a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

The moot point is ,beyond paying lip-service ,has the West learnt the bitter lessons from this.

I reiterate what I said earlier -with all the emphasis at my command : not bloody likely.


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The following comments are for "Why should I bother-it doesn't concern me"

It Does Though
Let's call it what it is. War on humanity by evil religious forces. They own some countries, occupy others. We white anglo/european folk are convenient excuses and easy targets to bomb because these narcissistic jihadists really like the press they get from us. You "brownies" (no offense intended" are less sensational and less affluent so you are like a 3/5ths vote in their eyes. Wait until one, just one nuke, dirty bomb,chemical or bio weapon goes off. What will be the reaction from our peacenik friends or peaceful Muslims? We who love peace and security and freedom must unite to extinguish this threat. It is a continual threat. Doesn't anybody/everybody understand?

Good post.

( Posted by: williamhill [Member] On: December 8, 2008 )

Charlie and Eric
Charlie .

Many thanks for all you've said . Most haven't a clue -given that it's not happening on their doorstep etc.

And since it doesn't concern them its all too easy to be flippant about the whole thing , make light of the matter- and of course move on to more 'relevant' things.

Living where I do ,I must have met and interacted with at least a thousand Muslims , including Pakistanis , Bangladeshis, Lebanese, Algerian and French . Among them I have to say i've come across some genuinely good , caring -nay wonderful-people.

That should not however ( particularly at the present pass) blind one to the point that Islam ( perhaps like Christianity ) seeks world domination. However ,were you look at it dispassionately : unlike Christianity , Islam seems to stand far more of a chance of achieving this : they breed more , are way more willing to sacrifice their all for their cause etc.

I take your point about 'dirty bombs ' . Should they however , God forbid ,go off , it would most likely be in our neck of the woods.

And the 'peaceniks' , bless them , will still be trilling their "Kumbayas' and trotting out their soliloquys about "Global Warming ' etc.


"leave the rest to the Army Commanders...

Can you still trust your own armed forces?"

You can bet we do. They were the ones who pulled our irons out of the conflagration. While politicians cowered behind their steel rings of security. Incredibly enough ,notwithstanding all this ,some including on this site , still refer to them as 'cowards made brave by guns'.

As an ex-military man what say you .. surely you ,of all people ,couldn't have been a 'coward made brave by guns'.

( Posted by: RJKT [Member] On: December 9, 2008 )


Thank you very much.

Though viewed in the cold clear light of reason ( and taste ) , this is just a rant.And therefore devoid of any kind of literary merit.

You see ,one is still livid.And anger hardly makes for very much literary excellence.

( Posted by: RJKT [Member] On: December 9, 2008 )

Literary merit in opinion and rant well written...

Well written even in the midst of anger and passion isn't that easy to do, most cannot stay within reason or even rational when overwhelmed with emotion.

As one who once was a speech writer and speaker (me) and rebel rabble rouser during my activist years, and my years as a member of toast masters, I do find literary merit in your well written opinion and passion rant.

There is merit, yes there is. You did not go off on a rage filled tangent or remain focused and made your points clear.

Now, I also like the fact, that you quoted the very famous very poignant poem by Niemoller :

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

That touches me deeply considering my family background and having Jewish ancestry wiped out in the Holocaust.

Also, today by the most strangest of coincidence, I was in the grocery story shopping with my son, Joshua, and went over by chance to the Kosher section to pick up some Hanukkah candles, because my youngest daughter still observes hanukkah...

I said to my son, "Oh, look they have some, so hard to find them in this small town!"....

...then from behind me I hear a voice say, "Tell me about it!" I looked and there was a very young Lubavitcher Chabad Rabbi and his young wife and two young babies (he was just assigned to open up a Chabad center at our local State College here in town)...

...I had seen him on local TV just a few weeks before, and here he was in person by chance out of the blue with his family looking at me and my son and obviously recognizing that we were Jewish, yes, so we exchanged polite chat, and he gave me his card, asked me to Shabbat lunch anytime my family wanted to come...and it broke my heart...almost made me want to cry.

I was so involved in the Chabad community back in L.A., in Santa Monica (before I was introduced to my Tibetan lama years ago)...

I had found nothing but goodness in the people of the Rebbe's Lubavitcher Chabadniks there, welcoming me and my kids always openly and lovingly, even sat with Bob Dylan's daughter Maria, and her husband, Peter, and then my son played with Dylan's grand kids, and Dylan's son Jakob and I Talked, as he did with my young son, and so on...even met Jon Voight, a wannabe Jew, who loved to come to the Shuls and to the celebrations and holidays, yes, I met, Angelina Jolie's dad, funniest thing, how all the rich and the poor and even celebrities, all mixed so well together in one belief, very strong, and loving for that is what the Lubavitcher Chabad stand for...

....amazing people, the Lubavitchers, from such diversified Jewish backgrounds, some had been once Reform as I had been, some had been non religious Jews, and some were born into and it was all they ever knew...some like Jon Voight, a goy, once asked to convert but was told he could do more good by remaining "a friend to the Jews", a title of honor, bestowed upon few, his presence at marathons fund raisers were magical and helped raise so much money to help the needy.

That is what Chabad is also about, charity, big time. I was raised believing in that, charity, especially anonymous giving, is the highest form of living. Giving with the expectation of receiving an award or applause in return, is the lowest form. Yes, the Jews has various levels of what is the right way and the lesser ways of helping and giving in charity. To not embarrass the recipient is very important, giving dignity to the needy is also very important, and giving something that lasts and can make someone self-sufficient, such as an education, well, that is the best giving of all...anonymous help in a way that can make the person or organization independent and strong all on their own.

And, hey, guess what? That is the Tibetan way of charity too...yep, I see so much similarities between the kabbalistic mysticism of the Chasids and some of the teaching within Tibetan Buddhism...

As I looked into the eyes of that young Rabbi in the grocery store today, I thought of that young couple, that young Chabad couple in India that were tortured and murdered by the Muslims terrorists, and it just overwhelmed me with compassion and I was near tears...

I have said in other posts, I am in a constant struggle, for my whole life I have always been a take action warrior, activism for various causes require warrior attitudes, the passive or timid need not apply...takes action to get things done and deal with what most do not want to see much less touch...domestic abuse, poverty, hunger, rape, etc., and so much more to fight for...

...yes, and now for many years I have been a Tibetan Buddhist constantly struggling with my rage each and every day. Dealing with all the suffering I see all around the world and knowing that is what life is...suffering, desire, and more gets complicated. Very complicated. I have seen too much, I have known too much. I come from a family that has experienced the worst of the worse and have been murdered in massive numbers...

...and my current husband is an Iraq veteran, and one of my ex-husband had been a Vietnam veteran also, so I have heard first hand accounts by veterans of war...horrible stories, horrible wars.

...and all my family, myself especially, always involved into marital arts and self defense of myself and belief in it, and in using it not just for self defense but for the defense and protection of the weak and the innocent...

(the Shaolin monks first started the athletic schools of Gung Fu to train the people to use their farm tools to protect themselves against outright slaughter)

So, it is so hard!
I struggle like a jekyll and Hyde, like the many Tibetans who want to use violence back in the same ways violence has been shown to them, the Dalai Lama says NO, that will not be a solution....

...yet, I know what this is about quite well...

and I do not believe in just laying down and being slaughtered....neither does the Dalai Lama. He believes we must never give up on reaching people through love and reason and prayer and mantra, etc.--the true Tibetan teachings.

I have covered all my thoughts on this before in much greater detail that went on and on, if you want to read it again go to the WilliamHill post: "The Problem with the US" I will leave at that, no use repeating myself.

Like quite a few others I see the BIGGER picture of how this all came to be and that wiping out the terrorists or all our monstrously perceived enemies, will not be the final solution.

Compassion and prayer, I believe are THE solutions, for non believers, that does not seem possible, but I believe that there is great power in prayer, and mantra and meditation, visualization, etc.--it may sound peace-nik, cowardly and silly, but, believe me, I am the furthest thing from a coward...

...yet, following the path of the peaceful warrior it is the only acceptable means that I can take now with good conscious, like I have said before, for there are worse things than death...and I do not fear death. I believe in a higher justice beyond these physical bodies...

Now, Eric made a comment, on a post about how all are guilty, just as much as the soldier on the front lines, and I agree with him on that, we are not separate from each other, or each other's actions, I believe we are all ONE, and what is done to one is done to all...good and bad, either side...

Oh, it is hard, because my instincts and warrior self wants to just KILL them all...identify the enemy and wipe them all out, yet, it is not that simple anymore, not inside my soul.

I see there is a much greater picture and that ultimately all including the evil are victims, and evil can overtake us just as easily as it can overtake them, we are all in this together, all vessels of a soul...all live, all die, all get reborn...all pay their karma earned.

I do not want to debate my religion. I will not. To each his own. I feel what I feel, I know what I know. The end.

Peace, hope and the power of love can change even the hardest of hearts, never give up on love, it is the only thing that is truly real,
and to die in love, even dying at the hand of those that hate you, is better in the BIG PICTURE of the soul than taking the life of another no matter how much you hate them...

Hate me for my views, call me what you will, but, none of this like my life, this time, happened overnight...I have been many years in the making and in the constant changing and growing...because my only ambition, has been the spiritual path. Being peaceful and loving to those that hate me does not come naturally...

It has been and continue to be a long hard road, and road less traveled...I have made many mistakes and wrong turns along the way...and continue to struggle in each moment, each step, and each new day.

For those who do not believe what I believe I know it is easy to judge and put what I have to say aside...that's OK.

Like I said on WilliamHill's post, we much all individually come to terms with the choices we make in each life.

Tashi delek, namaste, blessings,
peace, love and hope...

( Posted by: TheRealKarmaTseringLhamo [Member] On: December 9, 2008 )

Thank you so much for all you've said here. I unfortunately am a person ( lazy perhaps ) who tries to condense all into a few words. I'd love to discuss this at length with you but sadly I've never delved deep into spirituality .

This is despite the fact that I 've travelled the length and breadth ,and am possibly steeped in the ethos, of what very eminent Westerners like Isherwood in his "Ramakrishna and his Disciples' have averred 'is the most religious country in the world ; and in the presence of a spiritual culture which made their own sectarianism seem provincial indeed." Or Somerset Maugham ,writes about his 1938 visit to Madurai's ancient Sri Meenakshi Temple :"..there is nothing that suggests reverence, and yet there is a vehement overwhelming sense of the divine that sends shivers down your spine.In some strange way the gods there seem to be near and living.."

Of such stuff is the warp and weft of our 'spirituality' woven . It must be there deep in our primordial unconscious . But few are able to articulate it.

Take my own home state Kerala - where all the three great religions viz. Hindusim, Orthodox Christianity , Islam - and even Judaism have been around ever since their inceptions . Long long before the Portuguese, the Dutch and the Brits arrived.

(Remember these were the fabled 'spice lands' -the Holy Grail of medieval European explorers . That produced the pepper that was more valuable than gold in ancient Greece, Rome or medieval Europe.)

We've long had a tradition in Kerala , where all religions have co-existed in perfect harmony .With each religion respected by the others. In fact to this day ,through out the length and breadth of this ancient land ,the populace joins as one to celebrate the festivals of prominent Basilicas, Churches , Hindu temples and Mosques. On October 12 when the Pope canonized the very first Indian saint ( Sister Alphonsa ) I could hear firecrackers and celebrations at her ancestral home which is just 3 kms from where I live.

Shortly thereafter we Malayalees rose as one to accord a tumultuous welcome to the Syrian Patriarch of Antioch ( who our mainstream Churches have long owed allegiance to .)

Even the 500 plus year old ( some say its 2000 years old ) Jewish Synagogue in Cochin is something all us Malayalees have all along treasured and taken immense pride in.

Such are our traditions : a deeply felt spirituality that most of us find it difficult rationalize and give eloquent voice to . But very deeply felt all the same. And this is the finely crafted fabric that outside forces seek to tear to shreds.

( Posted by: RJKT [Member] On: December 9, 2008 )

Hi Eric

You're right as ever . Frankly I hadn't thought of that particular angle ( or is it nuance): that the press-ganged ( or Shanghaied ) are there ,under extreme duress and compulsion . And really don't have their heart in their work.

Which explains why the WW II Royal Indian Army of 2.5 million ( the largest volunteer force in history ) fought so bravely . In a war that wasn't even theirs - but the "Burra Sahibs'".

However, just as Mao, Che and Vo Nguyen Giap turned Clausewitz on his head ( to the intense chagrin of the West ) , the Pakis ( your West's favourite guys )too have flung this particular axiom of yours to the four winds.

All the ten Paki 'special ops' who'd perpetrated the Mumbai carnage were hardened criminals .Plain and simple . Who'd been recruited by the ISI , given thorough training and then given their head. High of course on amphetamines, love for Allah and hate for all us 'kaafirs'. ( Meaning you too my friend .Make no mistake .)

Perhaps HM-DOD and Yankee-Doodle-Dandy can take a leaf out of this particular ISI book , and begin the mammoth task of re-manning their armies with hardened criminals ( drawn from your 'der treue' Pakistan perhaps.)

Might as well remain ahead of the curve. At least on this particular score.

( Posted by: RJKT [Member] On: December 9, 2008 )

Hi Eric

"No one offered us any virgins... we had to find them ourselves..."

I suspect in those good old days of 'free love' and 'make love and not war ' virgins must have been rather thin on the ground.

Now of course women seem to have become way more savvy and choosy . Holding out for the very highest bidder.

"Weaning Brits off welfare"

Just came across an absolutely hilarious BBC news item about HMG attempting to crack down on the welfare racket.Requiring all able bodied welfare recipients to do 'x' amount of community service.As a precondition for the continuance of such benefits.

In my 'umble opinion ,few things could be more Don Quixotic . It would be more futile than the good Senor's tilting at windmills.

Can you imagine the perfect storm this would unleash among your million plus Brit Paki community. Many of whom have long been milking the welfare system for all it's worth.

Nothing could be more terrifying to all mainstream Brit political parties than the spectre of thousands of rabid , placard waving ,Brit Pakis marching to Parliament House and No.10 . ( Led of course by the redoubtable Sir Iqbal Sacranie , the portly Lord Ahmed and Baroness 'this n' that' ).

All shrieking at the top of their voices that the only 'community service' their Holy Qu'uran allows is procreating to further the species.

With an eye on this million plus vote bank one fully expects all your mainstream politicians to come together as one ,and cravenly capitulate.This clearing the decks for your Brit Pakis to procreate at the Brit tax payers expense - ad infinitum.

Although much lip service is being paid to the lessons of Munich 1938 ,clearly Britain's bleeding heart liberals are extremely loath to take the bull by the horns...the bit between the teeth..and so on.

It's a good thing that ,should the push come to shove ,and Islam eventually takes over the West , it will be quite painless for most Western men . Given that most have reputedly been circumcised anyway.

Though it might be quite a different matter for the Hindoo gents in your midst . Who'd find the conversion process excruciating to say the very least.

( Posted by: RJKT [Member] On: December 10, 2008 )

Hi Eric

Are you referring to during ,or after, my London visit ?

After London I came straight back to Bengaluru via that travesty of a place - the tin pot sheikdom of Dubai.

Certainly no Chinese out here - they know far better than to get mired in a possible theatre of war.As do all the others.

We ,however ,have no choice -except bare our necks.


( Posted by: RJKT [Member] On: December 12, 2008 )

Hi Eric

Just to give you my own recent experience of 'the head in sand' approach of the GB Press. To precisely this issue

A couple of days back the Times ran a story fairly shrieking about how young Brit Muslims are regularly being thrashed at UK's madrassas . (There seem to be well over 1600 of them .)

I commented :

" Have no fear :this is just the thin edge of the wedge. In under 25 years after Islam has taken over Britain, this should be the norm in all schools- including Eton, Harrow, Rugby and Benenden - which would by then have been converted into madrassas."

To my surprise ,it was accepted and put up on their website. However lo and behold ,a day later it had been singled out and removed.

The BBC too seems quite the votary of the Islamisation of the West . Today's TV news headlines couldn't be more pro ISI .

If anything ,i'd say hats off to the Brits . They certainly know when to put up a fight .And when to cave in to the inevitable ,most gracefully.

If reports are to be believed ,the Chinese CP is extremely alive to the threat posed to the state by Chinese Muslims . The last thing they want is to be in the cross hairs of the Islamists . And would do all in their power to stave this off .

( Posted by: RJKT [Member] On: December 12, 2008 )


Good one.


( Posted by: RJKT [Member] On: December 12, 2008 )

Hi Eric

Just twigged onto the context. So should really be 'Touche'.


( Posted by: RJKT [Member] On: December 12, 2008 )

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