Lit.Org - a community for readers and writers Advanced Search

Average Rating

(22 votes)

RatingRated by
10Beatrice Boyle

You must login to vote

In the beginning

My master taught me that
fear leads to hate
hate to violence
bad master
bad apprentice


My master slapped my head
challenged me to think
so I thought about
how much damage
fear has done


Somebody wishes me harm
I wish them joy
not to admire the view
from the moral high ground
but because I should


I’ll ask my master another question
and he’ll reply
I don’t know
perhaps I never will

I am my master
I am my apprentice

In five hundred years time, most of us will be forgotten dust. But Hitler will still be remembered, God loves irony.


The following comments are for "Master And Apprentice"
by Ogg

Write-Off, Ogg ZEN triple 10
Pure Zen lessons here, and style. I SO LOVED this, if I could give you a triple 10 I would. I can see indeed you have been reading Zen lesson stories, eh? Tibetan Buddhism is quite different from Zen, it is right for me, but when I practiced the meditation of Zen in earlier years and read a few books on the simple wisdom example withing Zen style telling tale, I loved it. Both Buddhism, but one is very simple, yet just as evolved I do believe in its simplicity, of Tibetan style vs Zen style Buddhism, but this was so good, right up my Zen love alley, I have to give you the edge as much as I love you and Shannon both and his writing style blows me out the water, your piece here touched my exact buttons, ZING ZING POW! AWESOME work here!

I currently re-reading the "Art of War" by Sun Tzu, very much into martial arts discipline and lessons, the spirituality all mixed into the discipline.....

but my poor son got his nose injured tonight in his martial arts school sparring class but tomorrow is a major tournament and our grand master Tae Kwon Do of all New York, Master Kim will be there, so it is an honor, my son won first place trophy against his last opponent, and the guy was almost two belts of head of him then, so, he is fierce (I wonder where he gets that, hahaha?) my son is a trooper like me, like his sisters, like my husband and my first husband, we owned our own martial arts school. All things Zen, Tibetan, Martial arts, to me are spiritual...all paths, all discipline and yes we ARE BOTH apprentice and student.....yes!

My little grandson will be competing tomorrow too, good sporting, his first tournament. Wish us all look, my son too with his injury still going the way, if you ever (since you asked about me Zen & Buddhism)want to read a masterful book that gives an excellent overview and deep understanding of Tibetan Buddhism read the book called: THE TIBETAN BOOK OF LIVING AND DYING by Sogyal Rinpoche.

My son just finished reading it and our own Lucie aka Windchime of Lit.Org has also read last I talked to her...she said it was great. My son gets all the concepts, deep concepts, yet Sogyal Rinpoche presents Tibetan Buddhism in a simple format of understanding the principles, almost as if in the was of Zen.

Again, this totally rocks and rolls and is super meditative, lesson filled, wise, and you wrote in perfect harmonious simple style of Zen, as least that is how I am seeing it.


( Posted by: TheRealKarmaTseringLhamo [Member] On: November 14, 2008 )

Master's full fathom five
Probable nine. Hence, portioned lapse: deficient narrow escapisms.
Fatuity- that which surrenders upon a serious face. Prescription:
A cause to count: some serious side effects. Harm done: slapped.
FE fears to notch a nine unto promise's pause: a kick up the pathos.
-- Hitler wrote an elegy, that demise tractable and lo! Theatrical. --

Master At War-- Firstedition

( Posted by: firstedition [Member] On: November 15, 2008 )

Ogg goes Om
a measured, meditative piece, this. that excels in distilling the qualities of in the momentness and not-of-the-momentness, both… each stanza allows reader to access another level of consciousness, leading them patiently, not so some over-stated poetic climax, but to perfect equanimity and balance…

always been a fan of poems that deal with oneness and which accord it its proper place. this is a Zen vision, Ogg, and worthy of the highest score. unlike my miserablist limb-flinging, your poem is equivocal to a long, becalming ommmmmmm. great stuff.

( Posted by: AuldMiseryGuts [Member] On: November 15, 2008 )

Good thoughts
These are very honorable ideals, and great use of word and poetic structure. The only this that caused me to mark it a little lower on the scale is that is becomes very predictable at "bad master, bad apprentice". At that point I can see where there will be redemption of a different master. Where you catch up and pull it back with some weight is the last two lines. It would be difficult to start with those ideas first, it would give too much away at the start (perhaps). However, I think if you looked at it from those opening ideas -- start at the end as some say -- you might be able to explore more the choices and struggles the character feels througout life -- something we all would relate to.

Still, good words, and a valiant vision to write about.


( Posted by: BWOz [Member] On: November 15, 2008 )

first edition
I'm slightly puzzled by your reference to Hitler in your comment. It's just a 'signing off' phrase that I tack onto all my posts and has nothing to do with the main body of work itself. Maybe you could clarify please?

( Posted by: ogg [Member] On: November 15, 2008 )

Ca va...I liked the ideas here but as far as poetry goes you were badly outmatched by your superior...stick to longer fiction...

( Posted by: kilgoretrout [Member] On: November 15, 2008 )

At the risk
of sounding to be sour graping Kilgoretrout, I didn't choose to take Shannon on in poetry writing. It's unfair of you to tell me to stick to one form of writing because I'm outclassed at another. I will do whatever is asked of me in 'write-offs' without complaint but I will defend my right to say stop telling me what to damn well write.

( Posted by: ogg [Member] On: November 15, 2008 )

Thank You.
I enjoyed the context of the poem. simple and elegant in its entirety.

The lines were deliverd clear and strait to the point. may be i am tired and my brain is shutting down but, somtimes creating to much flare gets me in limbo greyed clouds.

Well thought and quick read.


( Posted by: NucleusFire [Member] On: November 16, 2008 )

Chloe's questions-
Noted same.

( Posted by: wguilddragoness [Member] On: November 16, 2008 )

Stuart,VOTE? (please)
Hi Stuart,

Come read and vote on the through ten voting score system, somewhat subjective, but with some guideline from what I recall being said years ago by either Chrispian or RCallaci, not sure whom it was, but I do remember a brief explanation along the way at some point in these past 4 years here as a member. A score of seven is usually the lowest score given by writers with any integrity or respect towards their fellow WRITE-OFF members, score of 7 means that the voter believes the writing had mistakes in or or was poorly written...8 means OK, writing is acceptable no real big mistakes or flaws, but still not a favorite for whatever reasons of subjective judgement, and 9 and 10 are a matter of degree in preference of writing style or subject or some belief in the superior writer in all aspects, including style, and subject matter, etc. Those who mark below 7 are trolls aka jerks, though I find that marks of 7 are not fair in this case, because both writers, Ogg and Shannon are far beyond such low scores, but to each his own in interpretation when there is so much room for subjectivity.

Come read, both pieces and vote. Sometimes it is a hard call because the styles are so different. In other cases the styles are close enough that it is not unusual to give the same score to each writer. You get my drift I am sure.

As to troll voters, Firstedition has got to go, and "possibly" another who has not been active here in over a year but suddenly showed up suddenly JUST to vote are questionable, could just be coincidence, but what do I know?...also, if any member votes either vote on both or forget voting, the final count should be even as Chloe has mentioned.

Now, if a work truly is absolutely horrid in punctuation, and the basic elementary school problems of poor writing, then yes, go for the 6 and below, but I have not yet seen any writers so far that deserve below a 6 for any "obvious" reasons anyway.

Love you my friend,
Namaste, blessings,
blessed be and so

( Posted by: TheRealKarmaTseringLhamo [Member] On: November 16, 2008 )

Master and Apprentice
Ogg...I love the premise behind this poem...we should ALL live our lives like this!

Tried to vote sooner, but my computer is going haywire again...never know when it will go off abruptly...the service I have to fix it is in India and I wonder what they're doing for my money!

I'm giving you a nine...but it was a hard choice between you and Shannon. Thank you for this insightful, lovely poem.


( Posted by: Beatrice Boyle [Member] On: November 16, 2008 )

Sorry guys...I mean to hit the 9 button, but before I could, the 10 registered and I couldn't change it!

I'll leave it up administration as how to score it.

Again, my apologies ogg.


( Posted by: Beatrice Boyle [Member] On: November 16, 2008 )

When it comes to poetry . . .
. . . I'm at a loss on how to "judge." Simply put -- I'm no poet. I do know that I enjoyed this piece, so for the sake of fairness (and lack of judging qualifications here), I'm giving both parties a "10".

Ochani Lele

( Posted by: OchaniLele [Member] On: November 17, 2008 )

Because poetry is such a subjective art, I believe everybody is qualified to judge and you are no exception to the rule. Poetry is all around us, birthday cards (ick), music lyrics, religious chants. You know that you enjoyed our pieces - so why did you? The poet in you did the recognising and enjoying boogie. Why did you enjoy two pieces so completely different from one another as well?
Here's a meditation technique I'm about to try out. You need a quiet room or place. Make yourself comfortable, close your eyes and try to imagine an empty chalkboard. Fill this board with the first words that pop into your head. Try to think 'poetry' but don't force it too much, prose might emerge instead. Bid it welcome and let it flow. Don't be upset if nothing happens first time. There may be a million other poeple meditating for various reasons at exactly the same time as you. So you're far from being on your own there.
Take care

( Posted by: ogg [Member] On: November 17, 2008 )

Feels like a classic horror.


( Posted by: drsoos [Member] On: November 17, 2008 )

The simplicity of this captured me. No theatrics, no showing off your thesaurus-reading skills, no pretension. No bullshit. Very refreshing.

Plus, if you weren't always your own master, I hope you slapped the old one right back before setting forth alone. And if the slap-happy master was you even then, well, right on. Masochism deserves a thumbs-up.


( Posted by: viper9 [Member] On: November 18, 2008 )

The simplicity and subtlety of this makes it strikingly powerful. I would've given you a 10 but, Shannon's poem struck me good.
Great writing.


( Posted by: ruthpenn [Member] On: November 19, 2008 )

Ogg... as per your request

I gave this the highest rating. I've found it to be a recollection derived from the archives of your ego, or the human ego, all its subdivisions in revolving canisters. Some parts of this were lightly hinting at a non-serious theory written for glasses of wine from the apprenticeship. Great work.


( Posted by: Ariana [Member] On: November 21, 2008 )

Thank you for stopping by and commenting as well as scoring. As to the work's origins, well it's hard to say really. I didn't actually get the theme and form it was to be presented in until later in the day having been at work all day. So it was a question of being in a bit of a panic. However I like a challenge and feel this could be better with a bit of editing and red pen ruthlessness.
Take care

( Posted by: ogg [Member] On: November 21, 2008 )

Add Your Comment

You Must be a member to post comments and ratings. If you are NOT already a member, signup now it only takes a few seconds!

All Fields are required

Commenting Guidelines:
  • All comments must be about the writing. Non-related comments will be deleted.
  • Flaming, derogatory or messages attacking other members well be deleted.
  • Adult/Sexual comments or messages will be deleted.
  • All subjects MUST be PG. No cursing in subjects.
  • All comments must follow the sites posting guidelines.
The purpose of commenting on Lit.Org is to help writers improve their writing. Please post constructive feedback to help the author improve their work.