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Stand up, but not for Jesus,
It's pointless doing that;
Instead stand up for justice,
For instance there's Iraq.

Democracy was promised,
It's occupied instead;
Civilians they vanquish,
Ninety-two thousand dead.

Colin Baker June 08

(With thanks to George Duffield, Jr.)

Colin Baker

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The following comments are for "Poem Of The Cross"
by colinbaker62

The two arent mutually exclusive...Read the Sermon on the Mount...Its the violent greedy Christians who call them selves "pro-life" that have blurred the lines...Jesus was very clear what side he was on...

( Posted by: kilgoretrout [Member] On: June 11, 2008 )

like how "cross" has double meaning here, although in that one sense it's probably am extreme understatement...

reminds me of the trivial editorial moralising some folks do, whilst refusing to get worked up about real and massive the injustice and desperation going on in the world… my opinion: sort life out here on earth before worrying about the here after. great slice of humanism this. thanks for this.

( Posted by: AuldMiseryGuts [Member] On: June 11, 2008 )

To the Trinity!
Thank you all three, 'Terence', 'Tina' and 'Shannon'.

As you each imply in your own way, issues of 'morality' and 'empirical interpretation' are but two factors that extend to the heart of the matter here under discussion; namely the above poetic take relating to the ongoing Iraq conflict.

Such 'factors' are, for me, interesting in their own right. For example, it is clear that specific ideas about what constitutes morality in a given society or culture, change over time. In other words, moral ideals evolve to suit prevailing / transforming socio-historical conditions. In the former case, they might perform a stabalising role for a dominant group or class of people, whereas in the latter case, they may underpin one or other revolutionary movement.

Likewise, empirical data obviously doesn't speak for itself but is interpreted by the people concerned, and always in the context of their specific historical circumstances. Thus here too, the different socio-economic, socio-political and socio-cultural experiences of people, including the various places they occupy in society will play a central role with regards to how they understand and explain events. For me, the ongoing war in Iraq serves to exemplify these kinds of complexities and contradictions in abundance.

Indeed, I think that this ongoing historical transfornmation of people's ideas and attitudes is, in no small part, what makes the study of one or other aspect of human life so fascinating.


( Posted by: colinbaker62 [Member] On: June 11, 2008 )

i find
i find in the Interest of Justice there is none...

( Posted by: Zeus [Member] On: June 19, 2008 )

Quite so 'Zeus'....

( Posted by: colinbaker62 [Member] On: June 19, 2008 )

Do we REALLY care?
Find it rather odd/hypocritical/ridiculous that these so called "Christians" claim to be so good and loving and Christ like and yet show so little compassion for the suffering nor make any effort to do anything about these terrible issues other than to make it their Sunday after church topic at lunch in a restaurant where their one meal costs enough to feed 10 starving people for a few days. These are the ones I call "Twelve O'clock Christians." I have a poem on her somewhere titled exactly that.

We wanna be Christ like?...then shut your f@#king mouths and start using passions to making even the slightest difference. It all adds up!

I live on disability and have a 17 yr old girl so we're not rich by any means but every Christmas we do donate gifts; buy gifts for a child from any of the numerous angel trees everywhere. And I do sometimes volunteer at our community center. Of be honest I haven't done in a while. It's not much but it's best we have right now.

Sorry, didn't mean to ramble on. I too am one who's very bothered by these issues.

Thanks for the stirring of emotions.

( Posted by: TAMMYHENDRIX [Member] On: June 19, 2008 )

Thanks Tammy and your human(e) spirit is clearly alive and well.


( Posted by: colinbaker62 [Member] On: June 20, 2008 )

Thanks 'FR'
Thank you 'FR'. To answer your closing question, no, I have not yet published anything in monthly or book form. Of course, I am convinced that such glory days await me! lol....

I found your idea about numbers interesting when you suggest that 'numbers don't lie'. It reminded me of something one of my former university tutors once said in relation to quantitative data being used as a source of evidence. 'Figures' he said, 'can be made to dance to any tune'. It's all about interpretation....For me, truth is always concrete. Or to put it another way, reality always lurks in the background, ready to assert itself whenever necessary. Ready to remind us that there is indeed a reality, and that sometimes our interpretations of things and processes in the world about us are mistaken. As you suggest, the figures about civilian deaths in Iraq do not lie...And one day it is hoped, they will be interpreted in an honest and objective manner, and by the majority of human beings on the planet.


( Posted by: colinbaker62 [Member] On: June 24, 2008 )

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