Are you telling us that Claire is alive? Many of us miss her alot... and would welcome her back in a heartbeat ...She was my mentor at lit...although I did not know her well...We continue to love that person even if we don't like what she is doing...I have some relatives like that myself...She will remain in my prayers as will you...Kacee
Posted by: nitz kitty [Member] On: October 22, 2007
She'll kill me for being on here but I felt really bad about everything that happened. My own family had moved away to Scotland for John's job(we're back now) and the next thing I hear she has killed herself off of lit.org. She's alive and in a much better frame of mind now. She had many "problems" back then and no hope at all. I think she really would have killed herself if there hadn't been some medical intervention. She's back on the road to recovery. I wish she would come back and write but I think she is too humiliated. Maybe someday. She forbid me from speaking about it but I thought that now that she's healthier maybe she wouldn't get AS mad at me. Maybe if she sees that not everyone hates her she'll tell her own story...that is my hope anyway...
To Be or NOT To Be
I think Eric is inclined not to be believing you about the whole thing...I hate to say this but I'm a little suspicious myself ...Lit has had it's share of multiple personalities and one of our own who we loved as a dear friend turned out to be a plagiarist ...It becomes a little hard to trust after that...I myself would love for it to be true that Claire is alive...and would be the first one to hold out my arms and welcome her back...as far as I'm concerned ...all would be forgiven and forgotten...
There was a big long thread on Claire's poetry...where many people blamed her family for going along with the lie...so you can see why people will be skeptical of you coming forward at this time...Kacee
Posted by: nitz kitty [Member] On: October 22, 2007
I feel I’m probably missing something here… but that’s okay, it’s my usual modus operandi anyway… and… I liked this poem. it had a stark, stripped immediacy to it, appropriate to the subject, and the last line’s sad, but cautiously hopeful… seems to be written by one who cares deeply. thanks for posting.
You can call them excuses but I never felt like it was my fight or problem or my place to go around and clean up after Claire. Claire and I have never been really close and when I moved away I stopped writing poetry. I was just setting up my life and getting my kids adjusted. My other sister called me and told me what Claire had done. To me this place was a fun outlet to write and talk. To Claire it was a whole world. Now that I am home and feel like writing again I got on Lit and saw that I had messages from people and I wanted to address them and tell them what I know. There are a lot of lonely, sad, addicted people who do desperate things for attention. But all that aside her writing was good and she was a valuable member of the community. I am not sure if you are suspicious that I am not who I say I am or if something else is going on but I can only say that this is the truth as I know it and I wanted people who cared about her or me to know this. If you don't, that's OK.
Truth be told
Many loved too much and were hurt beyond belief...I think those would be the ones you would have to convince ...I'm gonna just hang around and wait and see...I have my doubts too...Some have said Claire and her whole family were made up...a storybook family as it were...you may be her trying to see if we would welcome Claire back..this old lady gets confused easily.....I don't want to be taken for another ride...What will Bea say?...She fought for Claire when people were saying she was a farce ...A lot of good people were conned...some will not be too willing to forgive...Kacee
Posted by: Nitz Kitty [Member] On: October 22, 2007
What are you talking about? Can anyone shed light on this?
I hear what you're saying but I assure you that we aren't made up or the same people or whatever! Does Penelope think that too? She knew about me and my family and my kids.I can prove it anyway you want me to without endangering my own little family. I understand all of the anger but it's a shame that I'm dragged into it. Claire gets drunk and high and kills herself off of here and I get blamed. Even if I would have come on and tried to defend or explain Claire's actions you would have all said that I was really her. Claire will probably never show up here again because of her embarrassment... unless it's one of the "steps" .
Yes, you can absolutely withdraw...please do. I don't know what "break all limits" means. I was responding to questions asked of me by interested parties. And yes, there are plenty of sites. Go check them out! I won't allow you to bully me off a site that I enjoy coming to.
People were hurt
Search ...Clairesbest...Trust Your Instincts...after a while it gets ugly...I believed in Claire and stuck up for her too...I was just telling you what others have said...Some were truly hateful...I'm still a little leary but I'd be willing to welcome Claire back...I'm all for someone trying to clean up their act...My dad was a recovering alcoholic...and I was very proud of him..Kacee.
Posted by: Nitz Kitty [Member] On: October 22, 2007
She has no idea about this but I will tell her what you said. I can only imagine what was said and I am sure some of it was true but sometimes people make giant, ugly mistakes and they need to own up to them. Hopefully she will do that.
I couldn't care less whether Claire was an alcoholic... mental patient...screwball, or desperately in need of acceptance. Whether they know it or not...people reveal so much of themselves when they write, in between the lines, and when you have lived as long as I have, you intuitively pick up on that.
I supported her when I was I privy to her intimate thoughts and longings...keeping her information to myself...and will continue to do so whether she is alive (as I fervently hope she is) or dead and will continue...as always...to send my prayers her way.
In any event, Claire was an inspiration to all of us, and whether her life was a sham as some believe, or not...that is what we should remember about her...how she made us feel about ourselves. I for one, feel we are all better for having known her...whether she was real or not be damned!
Thank you Beatrice. She's real!!! A human being who screwed up. I don't want to rehash or hurt anyone. Just shed a small amount of light. Fairplay obviously has never made a mistake. Lucky guy...For some reason I can't log in to get personal messages so I hope I'm not being shut out by some enemy of Claire'.s
uhhhh who's claire?
I feel like Ive injested some acid an Im being forced to watch an especially bad episode of Knight Rider...Jeez Karmas gone now this lit.gate MY UNIVERSE IS FALLING APART HERE PEOPLE!!!!! ahhh fuck it I'm gonna get drunk tonight and quite possibly laid as well...so Madame arc..if that is your real name...Cheers and Welcome Back to the Realm of Figments...
Claire is my sister who used to write here. She had many friends and wrote a lot of great stuff. Then one night she got drunk and whatever else and killed herself off. There was a big outpouring of sympathy but she really hadn't died, she just lost any enthusiasm to live or to write. So, some people hate her and some people remember her fondly. Arc ... my initials. My real name is Amy.
ok iiii get it..this is more like a bad episode of the Real World..gotcha...Fake or not..I lika u face Amy...I have fallen in Love with several make believe people and i look forward to falling in love with you...peace
the encryption of Claire
Maybr Claire will never return. I hope she is well and does return. Eric, you are all wet on the issue. You really haven't a clue why she left, regardless of the resource you cited. I do know. I am not at liberty to say. Not being cryptic, just ain't anyone's business. Those of you who have a little faith in her, keep faith in her. Say your prayers. Other excellent writers have left Lit for various reasons and have not returned to post, much less to view or visit. I miss them dearly. If Lit is dying, it is because of some boneheaded moves in management, not because of decent people who love to write. In many cases it is all we have in common with each other. Lit is not dying. Otherwise you would not have seen fit to comment. Leave the intrigue to some other place. Good poem,Arc. When you see Claire, tell her hey, and give her my very best. She can PM me anytime.
Posted by: williamhill [Member] On: October 23, 2007
Hi Amy, It is nice having you back. I wish you and yours the best. I was very close to Claire and mourned her death. I am glad to hear she is alive and well.
Best to you,
Posted by: nae411 [Member] On: October 23, 2007
No asked you to forgive or forget. No one asked you for anything. Everyone has had someone die. In our family it was a death in a way. Sometimes you just have to let someone make a big mistake. The unfortunate reality of cyberspace is that people lie. They lie about their age, weight, talent, looks,illnesses, marital status,education etc... People reinvent themselves sometimes because they are unhappy in their real lives. Buyer beware. She hurt people and that is the tragedy of this but there are real issues in the world that need more attention then you are giving this. When she is ready she will apologize to her friends and everyone else should just move on. You Eric are the only one continuing to play a silly game.
I never used the phrase "silly games" until he did. I never cursed at anyone like he did. I don't know what you mean about management chasing her away. I don't even know who the management is. She chased herself away. I'm not actually trying to defend Claire but there was no way for me to come back without answering a bunch of questions about what she did. I honestly know nothing about what she did at any other website but I'm sure she did many irrational things. I never called anyone silly...he did. I never once made light of Claire's weirdness. As far as integrity, I don't even know him but I never questioned anyone's integrity. Claire will have to earn her own friends back. Flaming me isn't necessary. I didn't do one thing to anyone here.
WTF? So some chick most of you have never actually met in person pretended to be dead like 3 years ago, and now her 'sister' comes back to say it isnt so... This is like a soap opera mystery of sorts... i smell conspiracy! I'll bet amy is claire all along, attention-deprived and wanting; lassoing internet-induced companionship from you all like nooses around your necks; lies under the guise of the claire death facade... thats my guess, anyway- tell me if im right.
how long has this site been here anyway? and how do i access claire's 'inspirational' poetry for my generally and stereotypically (as naaive young post-modernist) jaded self to obtain. will someone either enlighten me with inspiration or beat my tail between my legs with reproach? amy, put claire on here and tell her she;s not done inspiring yet...
now that i actually read some of this, (insomnia...yea i really have nothing better to do right now) i begin to wonder who was claire? was she like an online cult leader or what? as gay as this sounds, your soap opera is beginning to intrigue me now... not that i'll ever come back to see the response, though...
all I know is what I myself have read of the comments linked to in this post, from a couple of years ago. And as a newcomer, I would at least hope for one thing from this site, that is integrity. That as a newcomer here, I can feel reasonably sure that what appears to be, is. I am just giving you the view of an impartial eye here. I don't know any of the characters in this play. But integrity, integrity, integrity. I would think this to be your first and most important goal here. And if this one were blocked from this site to ensure integrity, what would be the cost to her, she couldn't post here anymore? So what? She will post elsewhere. She will go on. She will live. And lit.org, in my sight will have integrity. Please, I speak only for YOUR site here, not for or against anyone. I know I am not to any of your caliber here, so please do not hold that against me, I honestly am telling you, above all, you should uphold lit.orgs integrity. Now I will go back to minding my own business, thanks. Robert.
Posted by: robnjop [Member] On: October 23, 2007
The conspiracy theories are crazy. Maybe this isn't the place it used to be...
about the conspiracy theory... i just have a satirical default of sorts when talking to people i will probably never meet. i was just kidding, man! (...although, perhaps this is just you and your conspiracy being craftier than originally anticipated...)
I really do not think we can for the following reasons:
Although this is a virtual world and everybody should realise that, Clare had great talents and personality. She was extremely suportive of many people including myself and was a prominant person on this site.
Eric is my brother, I tell you this in case you are not aware and I fully understand his misgivings and anger at what has happened. I also fully understand why he he saying that he no longer trusts to the fact that people are who they say they are.
However, I am not my brothers keeper, but would understandably try to help him if he were in difficulties, as I would expect you to do for Claire if you are Clair's sister. I would not accept responsibility though for his actions but would be angry if somebody unjustifyably attacked him.
Now to get to my point, like Bea I accepted Clair for what she was and the very essence of her real nature cannot be destroyed by any of the things that have happened. She was a caring individual who had a passion for the arts and a real feel for people.
Unfortunately she was, and possibly still is ill. This form of illness is not her fault, I have had to deal with peole who have had mental illnesses throughout my life, especially when looking after their children as a foster carer. A good friend of mine who was an alcoholic hung himself and several people I have known with addictions were perfectly good people except when the ilness took over.
It is hard for people to understand this kind of illness, including illnesses that do not involve taking drink or illegal drugs, and to understand the actions of affected people is impossible.
Claire hurt me and many others by making us live her death. Claire broke the possibly misplaced trust everyone had placed into this site. She broke up a family, one that had squabbles no doubt, but what had become a very strong 'virtual family'.
The hard thing to realise is that it was (or is) the illness that caused this and not Claire. Everyone has the right to be careful and needs to be careful. To say we should not get attached to people who could be faking is crazy, it is like saying take the soul out of your body!
If you are truly her sister and not Claire (and I believe you are) then you are doing exactly what I would expect of you, even in your angry responses. Eric is doing exactly what I would expect and using logic to ensure survival.
Problem now is even if Claire came back could that trust be re-established, I think not. There are a lot of people who were really deeply hurt by this, and there are even more people who do not truly realise what mental illness is.
I have been away from the site for a long time now due to presures of work, but felt I had to speak up on this as a few newbies to me were even asking should we discuss it. No problem can be resolved unless it is talked about and this site is more than just a place to post poetry!
I am aware that nothing I have said resolves any issues but I hope people can drop the anger and take things for how they are now....
or do I mean how they appear to be now?
My best wishes to you and your sister, Claire was a valued member of Lit, and for those who are not aware, helped make Lit what it is today.
Posted by: ivordavies [Member] On: October 27, 2007
Very well said Ivor. It is/was like a family here and I know she is the black sheep now. With good reason.I don't know for sure but I don't think Claire would come back thinking everything would be the same. Maybe just to write. I seriously doubt she would face the music right now anyway.
Can I just ask why everyone thinks that I am Claire? When did that happen? Is it because I didn't come on the site and respond to what happened at that time? I honestly didn't know about it until later.
Can't that be easily checked out by the administrators of the site? I can't change any opinions but I guess none us know whether you are Eric's brother either. I'm not angry and never was angry. My responses only sounded escalated when cursing and sarcasm was put out toward me.I'm not even defending her...I am telling what I think happened.I only want to discuss it in a mature manner. I wasn't around for any of it. I have never even read any of her posts from that time period. Nothing at all...
In the land where no one goes
are many folk who no one knows
It hardens souls to what they're at
(especially when they smell a rat)
Forgive me if I do not care,
I've learned the pain it brings to share.
But pain is just a part of living
and won't deter what I am giving.
So play your games and take my heart
before you choose to then depart.
But just a thought before you go
you only reap the seeds you sow.
Please do not try to close me down
for freedoms speach is worth a frown.
If you don't like the things I say
the choice is yours to stay away.
But if you stay, remember this
all that glistens is not bliss.
For who should throw that fabled stone
at judgement day we stand alone.
Posted by: ivordavies [Member] On: October 28, 2007
Is "Claire" Chinadoll?
Great poem, Ivor!
But, is "Claire" ChinaDoll?
Over the course of the last couple of years I have had several people ask me if I didn't think that Chinadoll was really Claire?
As I recall the circumstances of Claire's "death", there were some folks who had gone to the trouble of actually looking up a criminal file/ and public records file on the real "Claire" whose real name (I have conveniently forgotten for the moment)...and as it turned out, the real Claire was not in her thirties, in fact, she was in her fifties, and she was not young, thin, and beautiful as the "Claire" character she had portrayed here on the Lit.Org.
Yet, Chinadoll, IS YOUNG AND BEAUTIFUL! She is only in her twenties, and she is gorgeous! Chinadoll did write some poems that I thought smelled of "Claire" but that must be pure coincidence. It can't be Claire, because that would mean that............I think that folks who think Claire is Chinadoll are wrong. I think that Chinadoll cannot possibly be Claire or could she?
Could it be all for art's sake?
Remember folks, I came clean with all of mine, the rest of you did not! In fact, I was the ONLY one who came clean, while the rest of you just stayed smug in your dirty little lies, your little hypocritical, judgmental lies.
I'm not trying to "close you down" but I think we've discussed this stuff to death. Claire hates me now for even coming back here because she is embarrassed or mad or whatever but I wanted to come back because I did nothing wrong. I wasn't going to lie for her and I just wanted to read and write again. So, I hope all that "judgment day" stuff is aimed at everyone and not me alone.
Oh, for hypocrisy's sake...
there is nothing stopping you from returning and posting at the Lit.Org, Amy & your sister Terry aka "Claire" -just write already! There are very few souls here (and some who are no longer here) who are not guilty of multi-user name hypocrisies and abuses, some your sisters greatest supporters are some of the biggest liars and guilty of the same! I can name in one hand those VERY FEW who are NOT hypocrites here, the rest have no right to judge! Write, read, post....just do it!
Still Claire, still Best
For the longest time I thought Pen was a lioness. (Little did she suspect that her popeyed poet was really a 12 year old Aldeberanese poetess.) And how real is TheRealKarmaTseringLhamo if he has to call himself "TheReal?"
Seriously, I was saddened by Claire's "death," but if she wanted to be dead to us on the site because of what she was going through, that is her prerogative. I guess what I don't understand is the need to create a fiction. Out of "site" out of mind would have caused less embarrassment for her in the long-run. The grief that most of us felt is not wasted. She obviously needed the outpouring of love she received unposthumously.
Posted by: poeteye [Member] On: October 29, 2007
Excuse me, Poeteye....? Facts are easy to come by if you take the time to dig....
"Karma Tsering Lhamo" is real, it is the name given to me by my real life lama, Wangchen Rinpoche, easily verifiable....read all about Wangchen Rinpoche and Karma Tsering Lhamo on the internet www.myspace.com/msjanemsjane... Yes, the internet is filled with illusion, but it doesn't take much to find out real facts on real people, not much at all, at least not for those willing to take the time to verify... and all my REAL family, friends, and names are verifiable, not fiction, so I don't appreciate your dig, Poeteye.
no, no no -- never a dig
Dear Karma Tsering Lhamo,
I suppose I don't take issues like this identity crisis seriously enough. It was a joke. I would never dig at you. I totally appreciate the real being that I recognize coming through this site. I have total respect for you and for Pen and even Claire (though she caused me needless sadness). You have introduced me to new spiritual artists and thereby broadened my life experience. You're words have always been kind and your comments on my work well considered and positive, so please believe me I would have no reason to dig or be unkind to you in any way. I am very sorry that you seem to have taken offense (however slight) at my flip attitude toward this whole affair. I perhaps have not been following closely enough what has gone on with regard to multiple identity abuses and so did not realize the irritation my response might cause. It was unintentional. I will be more careful in the future. It never occurred to me to indulge in subterfuge on lit.org, and I was only attempting to be cute on this topic. I am sorry. Please forgive me.
Posted by: poeteye [Member] On: October 29, 2007
NEW SIGN-UP MEMBERS PLEASE READ
TO ALL NEW SIGN-UP MEMBERS WHO ARE HAVING PROBLEMS LOGGING IN TO SUBMIT THEIR WORK:
If you are a new user who just signed on, got you email verification, then came back and tried to submit your work, only to be told by this site program that your user-name and password do not match---DO NOT GIVE UP!
It takes a few hours for the moderator to "manually approve" each new member. You may not be able to submit your work for at least 24 hours or so after you sign up as a new member.
TO THE NEW OWNER OF Lit.ORG:
I wish I had a gold nugget for every time I have received an email from a MySpace.com member who saw my bulletins calling for "WRITERS & POETS WANTED" only to encounter this [your user-name and password do not match ]frustration here at the Lit.Org site!
It makes me wonder how many more must have tried but encountered this problem and simply gave up because of the hassle, and who never bothered to send me an email telling me that they gave up?
I've recruited several new members, and thankfully, a few decided it was worth the hassle and decided to stay. But I can't do this alone. Lit.Org site owner needs to fix this problem or put some money into this site to get to work correctly, or buy a new spam filter program or something? Otherwise I think that the Lit.Org will surely die, not for any other reason other than this problem alone is enough to kill any writing site.
Francisco/Terence/Paul Bishop/Matthew and a couple of others....
...these members came here through direct recruitment off of Myspace.com--they were patient with the "unique system program" of the Lit.Org...however many others were not so patient and they simply gave up and did not bother to return. Finding new members and getting them involved here is not a problem, but getting people to be patient is a problem. There are just too many other writing sites on the net that do not put people through a "waiting period" in order to be able to submit their work for the "first time".
Currently, if members are lagging it is because of so few of the old members even bother to comment on their work. And then you got folks who just come here to read but sit and wait because of whatever attitude and grudges they are carrying around from all the nonsense and brutal politics of lit.org past members. If those who are here want the new members to stay here then they need to start commenting on their work, instead of continuing to complain or coming here as just "voyeurs"....and you -VOYEURS- know who you are.
As for Claire, again, Claire who? Do you mean Terry (the real person who played Claire) aka whomever? Did she ever leave? Where is she now and why hasn't she come forward? The 'character' of Claire can come back, nothing is stopping her except herself, whomever she may be here or not? Is that the cure-all that the Lit.Org needs? Will that get folks like Williamhill to return? Will that get grandma B. back in full swing?
I'm tired of it. Don't particularly care for any of those old members or all the old characters they played. But if that is what will do it for the Lit.Org to return, then so be it!
All I know is that I've done my best to make it better by Lit.Org, I have paid my karma, and I know that now many of the new members seem to get turned off by this site over the sign-up hassle, thus never even get a chance to post for their lack of patience in this system, or the new member that do stay have been turned off by all the old political dramas of the old Lit.Org--this whole drama over Claire having been a strong nail in Lit.Orgs newest coffin.
Don't know what more to do or say? How about another vote to cast me out? Is my presence what is killing Lit.Org? I do believe that some folks actually still believe that, if so, then speak now,