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Overcoming the Holocaust, Nazism and Fascism

Some people throw around a lot of words loosely these days.
One can only guess at their motivations. Others use graphic pictures to shock less aware nabobs to jerk them in a direction or solicit a response that agrees with the jerker. I tire of these games and drama techniques. I suspect others are tired of them too. God forbid that we disagree with anyone about anything anymore without being labeled something. Some will say if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and so on and so on, but it ainít necessarily true. I have chosen not to take leave of common sense. I own a little of that.
With that said, here goes.

Letís start with some definitions.

holocaust. Websterís Complete Unabridged Dictionary(the big one) defines holocaust as: burn whole.

The word is now associated with the systematic extermination of the Jews as a race. The Germans attempted the feat from about 1937 thru 1945. They had quite a lot of help passively and proactively from many countries and races with their own motivations. (Just ask Jews who escaped from Russia.) There was to our discredit, a turning away of Americaís head to the slaughter.

Nowadays, if someone titles a poem or a story with the term, holocaust, it immediately causes extreme scrutiny and criticism. Many poets try to capture the horror of the extermination of the Jews including the use of all kinds of similes, metaphors, and allegories in their work. Iíve done so, and have come up woefully short of getting it right. All I can say about the Holocaust is that we, the world, and I as an individual, am ashamed of the actions that perpetuated this crime. Nothing that we will ever do will right this transgression. We, the good people of humanity will never forget. But I do not need to be constantly reminded not to forget. I donít need to remind the reminders that millions died to free the oppressed in that war.

nazi. national socialist.

A person who believes or follows the Nazi ideals.

Nazi is a term that should be included in Carlinís 7 words you canít say on television. Most people today donít even know what a Nazi is. Itís another word thrown out there to shock people. It is a word associated with skinheads, Aryan Nations, Neo-nazi, Ku Klux Klan and others. It is also a word thrown about loosely when someone is accused of not liking Jews or even a particular Jew. It conjures up images of a broken cross,(swastika) Adolf Hitler, Eichman, gas chambers and so on and so on.

For a person to be a Nazi, they would have to believe in extreme nationalism and be a socialist. (look up the definition of socialist on your own time) I can tell you that I love my country, a lot, extremely. It doesnít mean I agree with all of its policies, presidents, religious leaders, etc.etc.etc. I believe in making as much money as possible, and keeping what I make to give to whomever I choose. In other words, Iím a Capitalist. That puts me directly at odds with socialism. So by definition, I am not a Nazi. I suspect most of you who read this arenít Nazis either. Worse yet though, the word Nazi is associated with the word, hate. So now we canít hate, for to do so makes one a Nazi. I hate beets, mincemeat pie, and cranberry sauce. They make me physically sick. I refuse to eat any of those dishes prepared in any way. Does my extreme hatred of those innocent dishes make me a Nazi? Arenít there a few things you hate too? Does your hatred of those things make you a Nazi? If I disagree with a writers work who happens to be a Jew, does it make me a Nazi? If I donít like any single individual who happens to be a Jew, does that make me a Nazi? Does it make me or you or anyone else an anti-Semitic? I certainly hope not. Should we, as free-speaking peoples not criticize or disagree with a Jew for fear of being labeled a Nazi?

Which leads me to our last definition.

fascist. a person who believes in any program for setting up a centralized autocratic national regime with severely nationalistic policies, exercising regimentation of industry, commerce and finance, rigid censorship, and forcing suppression of opposition.

Quite a mouthful, huh?

How many of you out there in computerspaceland believe in these precepts? Come on, raise your hand. You know youíre out there. Admit it. It wonít hurt.

Until right now, how many of you knew what a fascist was? Not many, I bet. But itís another word thrown out there by people, some who know, most others who are ignorant of the term they are throwing around.

Now that you know what the word means, would you use it in a sentence? Whom would it describe? Whom would it apply to? You? Me? Anybody?

So why in the world would a person sling this word around if they werenít ignorant of its usage? Because they like to label people who disagree with them, because they wish to associate people or individuals with Nazism and all of its hydra. And in this freemans opinion, the slinger of these words is the very definition of them.

I will not be censored.
I will not be suppressed.
I swear to God I won't let you wonít burn me whole.

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The following comments are for "Overcoming the Holocaust, Nazism, and Fascism"
by williamhill

This all churns my stomache
and the other thread that was deleted. I try to remain bias, quiet. Try to read very very carefully and understand before commenting. Yet I don't find exactly what it is I want to say, except that it makes me feel ill to see such battles in the Literary world. It makes it much more easier for anyone to be attacked or to attack on the Internet because of faceless people we talk to.

I just wish us all to be in peace, understanding and an all around acceptance. I know I won't get my wishes........

I will not leave lit over political or religious writings, I think we are a large enough place for them all. I stay away from negative things I don't agree with.

One very intellegent lady that used to post here told me that several times..........let the negative go.

and I try,
and I try,

William, I've often read and commented on your works, my fave's were the Hillbilly Chronicle's.
This is written as your "opinion" for which I accept as "yours". As usual you've written it well.

we may not often agree with certain things, but I've always agreed to respect an author's writing.
We are a diverse group of people and it makes for an interesting place to be a part of.


( Posted by: Dareva [Member] On: February 23, 2006 )

Let's play nice now!!!
Hey Charlie...right on!

As usual, you speak your piece intelligently, confidently, and with your usual flair! While I make it a rule to ignore these little "cat fights" that turn up here from time to time (usually from new members trying to insert themselves into the forefront because their work was largely ignored)...I wanted to second Bob and Dareva's comments on this one.

Lit is first and foremost a literary site...not an open forum bent on vicious attacks on the opinions of others.

Read any good books/poems lately????


( Posted by: Beatrice Boyle [Member] On: February 23, 2006 )

Charlie, what's your point? What are you rising up against? The continued association of words with historical events? The fact that oftentimes many of those words are thrown in your face out of convenience, not accuracy? Speaking personally, I'd rather be called a fascist than watch the Holocaust slip away. Furthermore, your dictionary definitions really mean nothing to me, because the world out there constantly appropriates language and imbues its bits and pieces with cultural value, altering it beyond 'proper' Oxford usage. A faggot, if memory serves, was at one point a batch of twigs, then a smoke, now it denotes homosexuality or effeminacy. Your neat definitions of what a term means are neutralized in a world of idioms and vernacular that's constantly in flux.


Not that I'm going to change your mind or anything. Maybe we should take this to WF soon?

Oh, and I never tire of the word censorship being flung around. Fight the power! Uh, :)


( Posted by: strangedaze [Member] On: February 23, 2006 )

Londonís Mayor, et al.
It is so relative - the use of the words, as well as the position of the user.

In the Eighties, my friend had unexpectedly found himself as a commanding officer of a Joint Task Force 4 boarding party. He noticed a small cabin cruiser drifting suspiciously, with no way on, about 10 miles off Jacksonville, FL, coast. Drawing on his inquisitive eye and seamanís experience, he quickly realized that something was afoul, made the right guess, and uncovered the most ingeniously hidden stash. This was the biggest cocaine bust on high seas. The wife of the pleasure craftís skipper, who wisely shut up according to the Miranda rights, was overwhelmed at the mere 10 minutes it took my friend to find the cocaine, at his self-controlled composure, at his poker-face country-bumpkin demeanor, and at his black uniform, jack-booted look, called him a Nazi.

Later he wondered, while savoring the hazelnut-flavored mocha (which was itself a sigh of times to come) that the guilty conscience, the criminal world, or anyone caught red-handed, anyone unable to refute solid, professional work, and to sway the opinion of a precise, efficient law-enforcement or a military machine, this cocaine-smuggler sympathizer will ca resort to the use of the term ďNazi.Ē

I add, anyone who refuses to morph truths to appease leftist intimidation, is readily a Nazi.

This is what happened in the case of Londonís mayor.

When repeated million times over in the amateur section of public domain discussing the military method of Jews defending themselves in Israel, Suddenly it becomes convenient, and surprisingly logical to use ďNazií instead of the untouchable ďkike.Ē On this matter, thousand Holocaust survivors join my friend.

As long as famous, as well as amateur dictators are willing to defend evil by misusing the Holocaust tags, I do not think anyone should overcome the Holocaust. Holocaust has been mildly under-taught. Many younger-generation Jews are a bit too shy to use the evidence and make conclusions in earnest. Many Holocaust centers seem to be shy of discussing the Moslem cooperation with Hitlerís machine of lie and extermination. How fortunate that a jack-booted, federal law-enforcement officer of White-Anglo-Saxon Protestant-French ancestry born to a Leave It To Beaver family echoes wisdoms of eighty-year old Holocaust survivors.

Even at the expense of appearing like a business, Holocaust museums should be there, and used as a constant reminder, as well as a source of solid, irrefutable visual testimonies.

I think this is along the lines of what you tried to say, isn't it?

( Posted by: Teflon [Member] On: February 26, 2006 )

Nazi slingers?
Is this written about someone known only to the writer? Is it a personal grudge? I don't understand what this opinion is about. It's confusing and nonsensical. Why does the author feel he is being "censored"? Why does the author feel he is being "burned whole" or "suppressed"? Who is this "slinger" of the nazi word? What does any of this have to do with the opinion subject title of "getting over the holocaust, nazism or facism"?

( Posted by: Legs [Member] On: February 26, 2006 )

Rush "Feminazis" Limbaugh
Oh I know what you mean about that Rush (fat butterball) Limbaugh throwing the word \"Feminazi\" around carelessly! I dont like him either. it must be his drug abuse addictions that makes him like that.

( Posted by: castanedalupe [Member] On: February 27, 2006 )

Roasted Charlie

I do not wish to see you burnt whole, nor partially, nor in pieces. I would not see you censored or suppressed.

I sense no danger of this, do you?

I accept your personal denial of Naziism (and Socialism), based upon the fraction of your work that I have read.

These "less aware nabobs(shades of Spiro Agnew), easily jerked" include today's youth- woefully ignorant and easily swayed. Most of them cannot even recognize our "allies" on a map, and would oppose our Declaration of Independence as subversive, if they understood the word. A lack of education, not a lack of religion, feeds their ignorance.

I agree that terms such as "Nazi", "Holocaust"
and "Hitler" are poor choices for simile or metaphor. Most comparisons fall far short of their horrors.

I must also disagree with your assertion that a Nazi is by definition a socialist. Despite the Socialist label, I would argue that the Nazi party was Fascist in nature.

May you find victory in your mind over thine enemies, real and/or imagined.

Rave on, Charlie.


( Posted by: drsoos [Member] On: March 4, 2006 )

Why Bother?
Does the usage of these words really matter?

You know, as do I, that uttering (or typing) these syllables is like performing an idiot summoning ritual. You know that the people who use these words will stamp labels to you as if you were freight shipped to every city in the world. So why even bother? It's not like these words are really that interesting, or meaningful, or that you can't convey the very same meaning using other words, so why put out the idiot bait when it's not needed?

I don't think he needs to explain anything, BHansen. I also found it interesting that you tried to find another label for him, Evangelical Christian, rather than discuss him more personally you tried to connect him to a word which means to the vast majority of Secular Humanists "Religious Idiot".

I mean, I've been called a Nazi before, I've been called a lot of things by people who disagree with me, and for the most part, I accept this and shrug it off. And that's part of what maturity is, realizing what words are worthless in discourse, moving on, and finding new ones to express your ideas, which cannot be censored unless you lack the creativity to express the same sentiments in ways where your words will not be censored.


( Posted by: DCHXIII [Member] On: March 9, 2006 )

Truth in labeling
Speaking against labels, an anti-labeler labels the lablers as "secular humanists". I suppose that in certain circles this carries a negative connotation, like "infidel" to a Muslim.

I feel that evidence exists of a Creator, a perfect logic behind the Laws of Nature.

I have grave doubts whenever man claims to speak for Her.

Feel free to label me as currently agnostic, but God isn't done with me yet.

( Posted by: drsoos [Member] On: March 23, 2006 )

Sparing use saves perspective
The problem with frequent use of the words Nazi, Holocaust, etc. is that it breeds familiarity and the result is a lessening of the impact of the real acts that occurred.

If every annoying person is accused of being a Nazi, then the murderous actions of demented vicious freaks becomes commonplace.

If the death of 68 Shiites by a Sunni suicide bomber in Iraq is called a Holocaust then the death of 6,000,000 Jews is made less significant, less of a historical fact and more of a commonplace happening. People died in both cases but there is no comparison in enormity. Vicious freaks were killers in both cases but not on the same scale of victims.

The Nazis were vile evil killers and the Holocaust they created was unlike any other on earth. Using those terms as comparisons cheapens the death of six million people and that is why they should not be used as commonplace comparison terms.

Wise people will not make these terms commonplace but less educated may and there never will be any checks placed on them as we have a free society where the wise and the unlearned live together.

( Posted by: Blondie [Member] On: May 22, 2006 )

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