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I don't live in London, I don't live in Manchester, I don't live in Warrington or any of the city centres that have been subject to bombings.

The truth is, in a way I also feel that if I was so deeply convinced by been brought up believing that the people who bombed my country and killed my friends and family were evil, I too might decide to take revenge.

I have no symphathy for people who kill and maim innocent people. I have no symphathy for governments who let atrocities go ignored and preach the rightiousness of going to war when it fits in with their political objectives.

In the meantime, Africans, Americans, Jews, Palestinians and just about every nationality on the planet are killed, maimed, raped or tortured. And today yet again in my homeland.

Proud to be human? Not at the moment, our species is the lowest of the low when it comes to reallity. When will this madness stop... certainly not in our lifetime.

I write poetrey, explaining that we are all responsible for how we behave and live in this world.... what an utter and complete waste of time! Not that I don't believe it, I just think most people are incapable of change.

What should we do, let the miserable be a misery, the happy be happy, killers kill, healers heal? Yes I supose that just about sums it up.

Me, you can bomb me, insult me, kill my countrymen, but like most of us over here, I'll still enjoy life to the full.

What comes around, goes around, but when are we going to get off the bloody roundabout?


The moment created this second, is a moment that's going to last.
It lives the full spectrum of time, the future, the present and past.

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The following comments are for "Proud to be human?"
by ivordavies

Earth humour
I often wonder if UFOs don't land because they they think Earth is a lunatic asylum. You summed it up nicely, Ivor with 'killers kill, healers heal'.
Take care
Paul the Ogg

( Posted by: ogg [Member] On: July 8, 2005 )

Eric, Paul, Tina...

Thank you all for looking in and in some way sharing my emmotions. Many people will react in mant different ways to this, but terrorism just doesn't work. It strengthens peoples resolvew and makes the hatred worse.

The only logical reason for terrorism is revenge, so I guess there will be no end to it.


( Posted by: ivordavies [Member] On: July 9, 2005 )

The Trouble With Martyrs
Call me a humanist, Ivor, but I believe in the very best in people even when I see the capacity of humanity at it's very worst.

I am, of course, not in England, right now, so that's a bit easy for me to say.

The theft of life will always exist as the worst theft of all, becaue we have no mueasure by whih to repay the loss of life -- we have very little in the way of meauring it, never mind understanding it. How can one repay a debt of which there is no measuring? I believe that inability to measure loss speaks directly to the immeasurable rage of the terrorist organizations which work againt us.

( Posted by: hazelfaern [Member] On: July 13, 2005 )

The Trouble with Late Night Commentary
Ivor ~ I'm sorry if the above comment doesn't make much sense. It was very late when I wrote it, and if I'd been just a little more awake and aware I would have decided to wait a little longer to post my thoughts.

What I really wanted to say is that I remember very clearly how my friends and family and I felt when the terrorists targeted New York and Washington, DC that horrific September day, 2001.

It's a very odd thing, I think, to experience terrorism as a poet, because what we do tends to be so small and personal. Yet when our country is attacked we feel something we may not be able to adequately express through our chosen form because as a nation, as a loose melee of vageuly connected people, we suddenly share a profound sense of loss, rage and newly-understood vulnerability.

I am wary of rage and I have a feeling you are, too, although in times like these, when some great, inassessable wrong has been done, it can be difficult to handle that wariness without feeling as though the adult tendency towards reason in the midst of profound chaos leaves us still, even more, vulnerable, and that sensation of vulnerability can be extraordinarily unsatisfying.

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once said that the ultmate downfall of violence is that it is always a descending spiral. Hatred, the mother of violence, does not resolve, take away, undo, or rejustify violence, in any way. The dark cannot destroy the dark -- only light can do that; and hatred cannot destroy hatred -- only love can do that.

This is the point at which reason becomes difficult and, for most people, it seems like a better choice to act, react and consider the consequences of our reactions, later. Because how can anyone love a terrorist? How is it possible to shine the light of reason on fanatacism?

The answer to that quandry, I believe, is that we need to renew our hold on objectivity and our sense of the larger flow of time. I do not believe that terrorists act out of revenge -- no, they are fanatics who have lost a reasonable understanding of the scope of the thing which outrages them and believe they must take unusual and extreme meaures in order to bring the world back into balance. It's important to remember that not all terrorists are Muslim. There are anti-abortion clinic bombers, environmentalism activists, and anti-taxation liberalists who also lash out, through violence, to express the intolerable depth and lengths of their rage. It's important to remember, because in the wake of a terrorist attack, we are given the opportunity to fall into the same trap.

Of all the things terrorism presents to us, that trap, the ability to mimic the sheer rage of these fanatics, is the very thing we should fight against most doggedly.

As first class nations it is easy to take what we know for granted -- good food which is easily accesible, clean drinking water, civil rights, civil discourse, sane government, liberty, cable television, libraries, drivers licenses for women and most luxuriously, the right to be egregiously and profoundly wrong. We should not allow fanatacism to take away any of these things -- not our sanity, not our freedom, not our decorum, not our composure and most certainly, not our most precious gift which is the ability to reason, to see the longer view, to understand that insanity and profound error are conditions which lie latent in all of us.

This nation that I live in is one which was born out of religious warfare which swept through Europe -- a religious warfare which birthed both the Spanish Inquisition and the French Revolution. Yet, initially, in this country, we continued that same religious and cultural intolerance which brought a rowdy group of thrill-seekers, idealists, and oppressed peoples together. It is a miracle, I think, that we developed any good government, at all. It was not easy. John Adams initially told Thomas Jefforson that allowing universal suffrage (letting people who did not own land to vote) was tantamount to legalizing anarchy.

Democracy, sane government and the caretaking of true civil rights is a constant struggle. Our human history proves that it is easier to be cruel, stupid and selfish than it is to be what we are now. And we are not perfect, we are constantly struggling.

We should not allow ourselves to be dragged back into the dark. Crimes against humanity not only do not resolve crimes against humanity, but they elevate the worst in us and, ultimately, they justify the dark, through which we are still, now, even yet, struggling to see.

( Posted by: hazelfaern [Member] On: July 14, 2005 )

Applause, nevertheless
I find it incredibly difficult to separate sides in any conflict - each perceives its own heroes and martyrs, its right to succeed, its inalienable grasp of the entire truth.
My mother was German and my father an English soldier. They married in 1947 when the British were still occupying Hamburg. Tales of horrors came from both sides. I learned early that "History is written by the winners"!

However, despite all this, despite all attempts to remain even-handed, I cannot help but feel rage - and, yes, shame - that anyone, any human, could cold-bloodedly plan and carry out such atrocious acts specifically aimed at innocents.

Deliberately targeting innocents is not the sole province of terrorists - most of us are aware of that, even if we don't have the courage to openly admit it.
I stand full square against it - as, I believe does every truly civilised human being whether it is in London, Baghdad, NY, Bali, Spain, Eastern Europe or so many countries in Africa. My thoughts these words are only tiny actions but I have a feeling that they are part of a basic swell of wider outrage.
It is the courage of ordinary people to carry on that I applaud - that happens, mostly without comment, throughout the world.
On July 7 it was my country.
I applaud the ordinary person.

( Posted by: pastiche247 [Member] On: July 16, 2005 )

London's Burning
Jennifer, Wayne

Sorry for the delay in responding, thank you both for you insight and attention to this. I agree, despite my comment, it is not purely revenge that drives terrorism, this was a throw away comment shrouded in emmotion. And yes Wayne it certainly is dificult to seperate sides in any conflict.


( Posted by: ivordavies [Member] On: August 20, 2005 )

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