Lit.Org changes coming
by Crowe (Admin) - published: January 30, 2005
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Category - Lit.Org
© Copyright by Crowe

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Over the last few months the Lit.Org staff has been the object of a lot of negative comments and feedback. While we can take the heat, we would like to remind everyone that we are here to do a job, one which we all volunteer to do. That job is to help Lit.Org run smoothly and sometimes that means making decisions that won't make everyone happy. We do try our best to work things out so that everyone ends up happy, but with any group as diverse as ours we can't always accomplish that goal.

We value your feedback and criticism. It helps us grow and shows us where our weak areas are. But when your have a problem with Lit.Org or the staff, remember, we are members and people too. We don't allow members to assault or flame one another and we will not allow anyone to treat us that way either. The rules are in place to help us during the heat of a debate when tempers flare and opinions collide. The site is like a family and we won't always get along, but that doesn't mean we can't be civil, even when we are in heated debate.

We will be adding a dedicated area to the site for discussing issues that pop up as they do from time to time. This new area will provide a place to discuss site issues and problems and even provide a place to post suggestions and feedback. This will keep site related issues from clogging up the front page and posts. Also, we are always available via email should you have an issue you wish to discuss in private rather than on the site.

We have been planning changes to the site for a while now that will help improve the site and many of those changes include improvements that will improve the relationship between members and staff. We are all on the same team, after all and our goal is a fun, friendly place for everyone.

Like you, the staff pours their heart into the site devoting the most precious of commodities, time, to making sure every member gets the best experience they can from Lit.Org and that each member is treated fairly and with respect. No one on the staff gets paid to do any of this and they work hard with no gain other than the enjoyment of helping out.

We are looking forward to the changes coming down the pipe. These things are exciting and should bring an infusion of fresh life into the site. We have a lot of work to do and hope everyone enjoys what's to come. We'll make mistakes along the way, but we'll solve them together.

------
Chrispian H. Burks
Creator and Editor
http://www.Lit.Org

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Comments

The following comments are for "Lit.Org changes coming"
by Crowe

Thanks for the great site!
Kudos to all of the volunteers who work on this worthy venture. Personally, I don't see how one hundred people could have the time and fortitude to effectively run a site this massive and time-consuming. I know that there are much fewer working on this operation, which is run extremely well.

We, the users of this forum, are truly beggars, obtaining a valuable service for free. At times, as with other websites (even large corporate sites, such as E-Bay), things will not (or will appear not to) operate properly. Just remember that you could be paying to receive the same services, offered a million times worse than is provided here. We have a professional, caring group willing to work with people who consistently leach time and energy, without the benefit of financial gain or user gratitude.

With sincere appreciation, I look forward to the future of this website.

( Posted by: cturner [Member] On: January 30, 2005 )

Good news
I respect the hell out of you, Crowe. While I don't agree with the rhetoric in parts of the announcement, I'm happy to hear that you're going to create a dedicated forum for discussing the touchy issues that inflame our tempers now and then.

Hurrah!

( Posted by: Viper9 [Member] On: January 30, 2005 )

On changes at Lit.org
Hi Crispian.
As always you and the staff deliver the good: you provide a fantastic service to all the users of this site.
Hopefully with the changes you want to bring about any flames turned on the staff, etc will just burn out.We don't need any bad feeling. Fact.
Thanks again
Cleveland W. Gibson

( Posted by: Cleveland W. Gibson [Member] On: January 30, 2005 )

volunteers
good to hear you're addressing some of the issues. perhaps you'll create an environment more conducive to back and forth genuine discourse.
i think you also might consider some of the criticism you've received -- i've never heard nor seen any evidence that you actually listen. my understanding is that the "management team" is rather young, so perhaps that explains some of lack of maturity. i do believe though that litorg may still be able to live up to its self titled "lit" label.
as to the "volunteers" -- who earns the advertising revenue?
Brad

( Posted by: brad [Member] On: January 30, 2005 )

re: brad
Brad, your comments are off base. Anyone wil tell you I take every suggestion seriously. There is also not a "young" staff member at all. I'm 32 and I know most of the staff is closer to my age.

I earn the advertising revenue. I run 5 sites and the total of them make around $100 a month. I pay $150 a month for hosting. So, yeah, I'm going to retire on that soon.

Please feel free to email me if you have concerns or ideas for improvement and I'll take them into consderation. If you have proof of a problem, send it my way. I can't do anything about a problem I don't know about. Don't assume I know everything that happens, if you don't tell me I can't do anything. My email address (for the last 7 years) is crowe@lit.org so drop me an email if you have anything else for me.

( Posted by: Crowe [Admin] On: January 30, 2005 )

Crowe
Crowe,

As you know, I love the site. I actually thought that you made a living out of your web sites, but had absolutely no objection to this. Everybody is entitled to be paid for their work. It sickens me when people expect a doctor to be paid, but object to certain groups of people being paid for their work.

As we are not asked to contribute at all, obviously we are guests on your site and as such have to play by your game, I have personally never had a problem and have never had any work removed (to date). I have missed most of the things that have upset people in the main, but have been sorry to see some good writers and poets depart.

If your new section can allow people to openly discuss problems and resolve them it will be a good venture. I do, however, have resevations as a forum of this nature may give rise to further problems that if 'vetted' may lead to even futher resentment.

You walk a fine line and I feel you will not be able to do right for doing wrong!

I am glad that you havwe explained how little revenue is gained and the personal cost to yourself of hosting Lit, as I feel that this will demonstrate your motives in all your actions. But even so, if it was purely for commercial gain I feel that the same decisions would have to be made to satisfy the majority of your members.

Maybe I am talking out of turn, as I know of no facts that have deterred me from posting on Lit, but I still see this as the best site and bunch of members on the internet.

Ivor

( Posted by: ivordavies [Member] On: January 30, 2005 )

re: ivor
Ivor, Thanks for the feedback. I've been lucky enough over the last two years that people (like you) have been kind enough to use the donation link on the site. It is not necessary, but it is greatly appreciated when people do. It's true, we do not make any money off this site and never have. I've been running Lit.Org for almost 10 years now and only in the past 2 years or so have we put ads on the site that we actually get paid for. That leaves 8 years of $35 - $200 a month that I've gladly paid out of my own pocket. I'll gladly continue to do it for as long as humanly possible. I funded the our poetry contest out of my own pocket, including the cash prizes and the journals we printed up. I have a day job in which I work M-F 8-5 which is the only way I'm able to do this.

I do work for a website for a living. The company I work for manages several sites and I'm the programmer there. I've been building websites for a living for about 7-8 years now. Because I have those skills I'm able to do things with Lit.Org that would cost other sites money and so we are very lucky in that respect. We are also lucky that we have staff members who put their own time into the site and have even offered to pay for things, like the contest. Jessica was going to foot the bill for the contest herself, as it was her idea.

We are all just here because we love writing. I built this place because I wanted a place like this to exist. I've run it longer than I've known most people in my life ;) It is a passion that I won't soon lay down.

I've taken plenty of heat over the years and I'm sure I'll take more. But it's the nice comments like the ones I've seen here that really make this all worth it. I know we don't always do things right, but hey, we are just people after all. We'll do our best to make it right if you just give us the chance. That's all I ask for.

I've been very impressed with the support from the members of the site over the years. The kind words, feedback and even the donations. It speaks volumes about the community we've built.

Thanks again for the kind comments!

( Posted by: Crowe [Admin] On: January 30, 2005 )

Crowe
Chris, It would take a week worth of words for me to describe what lit and WF's mean to me. I honestly can say it has changed my life. I believe we (all of us) have built a family of writers here. I know things are not always smooth but I know of no family that is all of the time. I look forward to always being a part of this community. I just want to say Thank you to you and your staff for all that you do. It is very much appreciated.

Nae

( Posted by: nae411 [Moderator] On: January 30, 2005 )

Crowe
Hi. I have not posted much in the past couple of months but not to anything to do with Lit. I love to consider myself as a "regular" here and I have found myself missing Lit. when I am not able to come even just to read.
I do realize there have been some strain between our members and staff here and there. I honestly think that this could be resolved somewhat if we ALL remember we ALL have the right to our own opinions and need not argue over them.
I truly enjoy this site more than my lack of involvement shows.
I believe that a "dedicated area" would be wise to add to this site Crowe.
I want to let you know at this time I have always admired and respected all members of Staff as well as other members. You have done a wonderful job with keeping this place running, even through the bumpy rides.
I truly am happy to be a part of the "Lit" family. I think if we could all respect one anothers "opinions" as well as the "rules and guidelines" set by yourself it would be an easier ride.
Thank you for the hard work and dedication you have for this "baby" of yours Crowe. Thanks to your staff as well for the voluntary hours they put in. "Write on!!!!"

with respect,
Darlene ;)

( Posted by: Dareva [Member] On: January 30, 2005 )

Volunteers
I volunteer my time too. I don't believe that's a reason to behave in a manner which singles out individuals for biased treatment. I've made my complaints known in private for quite some time and have seen things continue. When I joined LitOrg, it was more free wheeling and now all I see are new rules along with unwritten ones no one is made aware of.

I don't care if staff have opinions and exercise them but I do care when members feel they are the problem. My comments aren't out of line either.

I have nothing but the highest respect for you other than not being able to address the problem I won't mention specifically. I've donated time and money to ensure that both sites had funds to sustain their viability.

LitOrg and the forums are nothing without the members that contribute their work and add their comments to the community. No one should be considered 'special' if they continually go out of their way to behave in an unequitable manner.

( Posted by: Penelope [Member] On: January 30, 2005 )

Family Squabble!
Chris...you know how much I respect and admire you for the wonderful work you do here (I've said so many times both here and in private.) However, IF and WHEN I'm upset with the way things are going here...I will do it in Private!

That is not to say that I denigrate any legitimate complaints that members may feel they have...I just don't think airing them so blatently, stirring up animosity among us, is the way to go about it. I have seen the damage this causes in the workplace as well as social situations. (Some people like to cause a rukus, just to be noticed!)

I joined this site because I love to write, and being new to the cyber world, floundered helplessly from site to site, not finding my niche until I came here. For the first two years, it was heaven...everyone seemed to meld together as one unit. However, it seems that in the last 6 months, first one complaint, then another until it became a deluge! As pbrobably your most Senior member here, I'm used to more censorship guidelines than most of you...and accepted it without a second thought...as these rules conformed to my own code of behaviour. I realize that times have changed and for the most part, accept and welcome the changes. But good taste and decency NEVER change.

In the workplace and in society, we are expected to "follow the rules" or not stay in the game. As far as I'm concerned...the same applies here. As I said before, I do not mean to denigrate legitmate complaints re Staff or other issues. But spoiling it for the rest of us doesn't cut it.
If you have something to say to Chris...please e-mail him without turning this site into a battle ground. It only takes one rotten apple to turn the whole barrel sour!

On the other hand...staff should take into account what is being said in some instances and realize that while they may not have intended their remarks to be interpreted as they were, they should try to rectify the situation and see how they could improve their communication skills...we are after all in the business of communicating!

Having said my piece...and completely aware that I will be dismissed as an "Ole Fogey" who's behind the times, I want to again declare my admiration for Chris and what he has accomplished here. Remember...he's da boss...and his rules stand!

Bea

( Posted by: Beatrice Boyle [Member] On: January 31, 2005 )

Mr.Crowe/lit.org...
HI Chris, I don't know what I missed, but, from this perspective that doesn't matter. I am a new member here, and this has been a life saver for
myself as well as my family. From a person that
was dying inside and out, I know how much this
site means not just to myself but, others, this lit.family of wonderful artist. Inspiration is
a dear thing to me, I have begun to live again
through this screen, I read ya'll's works, I
wonder about yall, who you are, your family's,
your troubles, what inspires and on and on.
This site is my blessing, if I had a bank full of $$$, this site would too. I want to see this site continue and prosper, I want to see more of
the beautiful words, I don't care if it's horror
fic. or true horror, you get my drift. What ever makes this site tick, may it continue. I think sometimes we just misunderstand, it's great to
be opinionated, that's one of the things we are priveleged, the right to write, as well as the right to read. Just blesssed to be here.
~Robinbird~

( Posted by: Robinbird [Member] On: January 31, 2005 )

*sigh*
Nothing stays the same forever. Parteepants is gone. Rogan is...well...very quiet. Most of the people I remember from the old days are gone. I know I'm not very active on comments and such, but I don't really feel like I know you, or you know me, anymore.

I feel like an outsider.

I'll keep posting stories, though. Until someone makes me stop. Where else would I go?

( Posted by: Beckett Grey [Member] On: January 31, 2005 )

Writer's are passionate!
So many passionate comments. I joined this site back in 2001 and was very active. I left for sometime and have been back on the scene lately and surprisingly found things much the same, in terms of flare-ups and such. Some of the names have changed, but not the writers.

I think getting a bunch of writers together and expecting their not to be a difference of opinion, is like getting a bunch of pro wrestlers together and then demanding that their be no screaming. It seems inevitable.

Yet, I have been out there to see what else is available for writers and it's not pretty. This site is far and away a superior site. AND, I mean that in both the way it is ran and the folks that make up the staff and community.

I am ashamed to say I have not contibuted to Crowe financially, (But Dang well am going to start) I guess I never thought about the nuts and bolts of the site, just kind of took them for granted. Then I'm (were) writers and probably spend a lot of time my (our) own head(s).

I'm going to check my checkbook and give what I can because this site rocks. Thank you to all of the staff. Remember, if more of us were peacemakers instead of troublemakers we'd better be able to focus on our writing.

Jeff

P.S.
*George Bush is the best president ever.
*War in Iraq was the right thing to do.
*Abortion should be illegal.
*and that dress does make you look fat!
Tee Hee Hee ;-)

( Posted by: Jeff [Member] On: January 31, 2005 )

Jeff!
Mentioning my dress!? Well sir, that's just crossing a line. For shame.

( Posted by: Viper9 [Member] On: January 31, 2005 )

Jeff/Viper: It's not the dress...
...it's the beer gut and that big fat butt! ;)
(Just teasing, Vipe! Don't bite!)

Crowe: As far as I'm concerned, your house - your rules. Any one of us who doesn't like 'em is free to start a web site of our own! That's the story of, that's the glory of the Internet.

Continue to be wonderful.

( Posted by: LinnieRed [Member] On: January 31, 2005 )

Hurtin'
You wound me, LinnieRed! :)

I just want to mention, as I have a thousand times in the past, that NO ONE was complaining about the rules. What people had a problem with was the way in which the rules were applied.

Take the law against stealing. I like that law. I think it's good. But I'd be rightfully pissed-off if the cops stole from people left and right, let their friends steal, arrested only people who disagreed with them, and meanwhile busted me for stealing something I already owned!

To reiterate: Not the rules that are the problem, but their application. Most people, during our little periods of strife, seemed to completely miss that point.

That said, I'm glad to see things moving in a positive direction, and hope that we can keep problems of the past in the past. Vive la Lit!

( Posted by: Viper9 [Member] On: January 31, 2005 )

Crowe's Lit...
Sadly I have no time on the net till I get reconnected but have just a few moments at work to respond. I think the plan is a good one - an open arena where nothing is invisible. The problem (as far as I saw it) was that each individual who had an issue with the rules, was silenced so quickly that the breadth of the problem was never clear. Although I am with Bea 100% on keeping the place peaceful, it would be wrong to allow secrecy/invisibility to smother problems. Rather like hiding the homeless so we don't have to tarnish our image with them. If there are problems (and of course there are - tis life) then at least let people be aware of them; they can then decide if they are valid or not. The new area will ensure that and I think it is a perfectly placed step forward. Thanks as always Chris for your diplomacy and kindness - you have always responded to my mail and I have never been disappointed with your response. The site remains a haven for me and the source of inspiration and friendships with some of the loveliest, most interesting people I have encountered.

I totally relate to the comments made by Pen, Brad and Lilia too - volunteers and contributors alike should retain respect and consideration for eachother regardless of any financial or time considerations. Just because someone is unpaid should not excuse poor behaviour and abuse of position. There are plenty I am sure who would volunteer to assist on Lit.

Must dash, can't wait to get back (although the image of Viper in a frock is haunting me and may act as a deterent!!).

Thanks again Chris for the hopeful path forward :)
Namaste with bells on!
Tina x

( Posted by: tinalouise [Member] On: February 1, 2005 )

Crowe

I am glad this topic has been addressed. Aside from the validating and other duties behind the scenes, does Lit really need "staff"?
If there is a lack of respect for the moderator's abilities and judgements then this problem will never be solved. Maybe a party known only to you (Chris) should validate and check for questionable content.

( Posted by: arc [Member] On: February 1, 2005 )

Crowe: Arc may be on to something
Arc: I think that is an excellent suggestion.

Crowe: Just would like to say thank you for enabling us access to Lit.

( Posted by: Bobby7L [Member] On: February 1, 2005 )

secrets
Howe would having a secret validator lead to less suspicion and greater trust?

( Posted by: Viper9 [Member] On: February 1, 2005 )

viper/crowe
I didn't mean a secret validator...sorry...I should have said an independent employee that has no personal relationships at Lit. I love this idea...

( Posted by: arc [Member] On: February 2, 2005 )

Independent thinking Arc....
Thought that was what you meant..Great idea.

( Posted by: Bobby7L [Member] On: February 2, 2005 )

Oh
Well, I suppose taht woudl make sense then! Of course, such an employee would have to be paid, though. I can't see any non-lit volunteers stepping up to do the job for free -- unless Crowe can find a reliable masochist!

( Posted by: Viper9 [Member] On: February 2, 2005 )

sigh
For God's sake, I have GOT to start spell-checking my comments. Sheesh!

( Posted by: Viper9 [Member] On: February 2, 2005 )

great idea
was going to suggest it myself (oddly most superior ideas originate with me, I just never let them loose. grilled cheese sandwhiches? my idea)
I'll speak for myself here, but a good deal of my disillusionment stems from the role of said supervisors/moderators. I don't believe we need further criticism (positive or otherwise) from anyone other than the site's participants.. its exactly the air of "credentailed" ctitique that rankles me (much less regarding my work than that of others).
Let the site run itself, with someone behind the scenes doing the mundane chores. Much time from volunteers would be saved that could be dedicated to the validating of comments and posts.
I will concede that it is important to have rules -- without them I can envision a somewhat chaotic environment dominated by a few malcontents. But as Viper has so wisely pointed out: its not the rules, but how they've been applied that has created problems.
I do think that litorg is a superior site, but it has been weakened by its creator's foot dragging on obvious issues. "No, its not" is not an adequate reply to the criticism that has been leveled by a large number of litorg's contributors.
I feel fortunate to have been exposed to talented, humorous, ultimately kind, and insightful authors tha I would otherwise never have known of (Hazel, Tina L., Viper, Teflon, Huni and many more). For that I truly am grateful, and I do appreciate the selfless efforts made by those responsible. I will not however be content to accept simply their will, if I have an option. Big breath,
Brad

( Posted by: brad [Member] On: February 2, 2005 )

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