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10The Alienist

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How did a walk in the water turn into millions sluaghtered?
how did a burning bush turn into yearning for bush's daughter?... and not the one that looks like bush in a wig, im figuring out how wiggling tush on the TV ever got this big...
"Well Stones Can Be Smashed, too"
which proves the fact... that these screw loosened actions are reminisant of excuses not to look for the truth.
which is... WE WILL NEVER KNOW
That's it! Is that so horrible?! Isn't it kind of wonderful?!
To acknoledge the truth, that you can't speak after dying!
So in turn, the scared create heaven, mecca, and zion...
(sometimes i want to scream)
It was a joke, HAHA, get it?
The end is near! the end is near!
HAHA, get it?
It was fear! That stick in your back as you walked into the church.
Well father, i broke that stick that second it touched me.
How your people kiss your hands, those page turning hands.
I am more like your savior then you are, MY hands are salted with splinters, little slivers of reality. The universe is infinitly bigger than GOD

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The following comments are for "Prayer"
by IlichVladikov

okay, i'm not much of a poet, in fact, i've only ever written one poem, but i really liked this. the funny thing is that i'm not sure why i like it. it was just an enjoyment to read.

jimmy g.

( Posted by: JimmyAndHisRocket [Member] On: November 9, 2004 )

spoken word?
this has a spoken word feel to it... which i love! and i hope i'm right about, i admire anyone who can write a good spoken word piece.
whether it is or not, it has a good meter to it and i really like it.

( Posted by: supergranny [Member] On: November 9, 2004 )

i don't usually take advice from people who superimpose their face with the american flag, but your arrogance struck me in the part of my brain that i used to argue with children, actually, english is my second language, russian my first and spanish my third, my writing lacks cohesion, because cohesion is boring, sorry, i left that at age 6 along with dr.suess, if you had a rythmic bone in your body you would understand my patterns, cliare, master of her "peers"

( Posted by: IlichVladikov [Member] On: November 9, 2004 )

Sorry, pleaes try again.
Sentence fragments make baby Jesus cry. =*(

( Posted by: capulet [Member] On: November 9, 2004 )

mass apeal
well, i just don't like to be constricted by the very thing im trying to express myself through. that's kind of pointless to me, if you want to turn it into a dog show with 3 word statements, I bow to you for having the ability to think for yourself, just don't let your "expertise" in poetry be your mandate. and i don't want to be understood by the masses, dubya is president, those people are dead to me. hahaha, but seriously, the flag thing, c'mon now...

( Posted by: IlichVladikov [Member] On: November 9, 2004 )

poetic license vs grammar
>Ilich....I am going to assume english is your >second language, there would be no other reason for >the murdering of the english language.

He didn't murder the english language. There are imperfections but for those who understand the poetic license and passion of poetry in its inner perfection, as Aristotle would have said, it is a powerful work.

> Sorry, pleaes try again.
> Sentence fragments make baby Jesus cry. =*(

Ignorant attitudes aren't what the commenting system is supposed to be about here at Lit.Org. I wonder when a staffmember was going to say that?...

Poetry is about content moreso than grammar. If you want to be a stickler about grammar, go read some prose. Being a qualified and experienced english teacher and writer, I would say that this man has done a solid job of artistically expressing himself for someone who isn't a native speaker.

But objectivity doesn't seem to run rivulets around here...

( Posted by: the alienist [Member] On: November 9, 2004 )

Beauty in Fog
Sometimes a song is about sound. Cocteau Twins, Dead Can Dance, Les Mysteres Des Voix Bulgares, Diamanda Galas, Meredith Monk. Sometimes you can grok it from listening without making out the words.

I felt this piece. I enjoyed the feeling.

Shall we revisit Jabberwocky/Vorpal?


( Posted by: GibsonGirl [Member] On: November 10, 2004 )

Poetic license to kill
Being a poet doesn't mean you can massacre the English language, or hold up the word "poem" like it was "get out of literacy free" card.

Some highlights of the non-poetic license issues of this piece:

"am more like your savior then you are"

"How did a walk in the water turn into millions sluaghtered?"

"how did a burning bush turn into yearning for bush's daughter?"

"im figuring out how wiggling tush"

"To acknoledge the truth, that you"

"The universe is infinitly"

If you think this is a very well constructed piece, then I think you have no business teaching English Alienist. There are so many typographical and spelling errors that have nothing to do with "creativity" that it's almost insulting to read.

( Posted by: capulet [Member] On: November 10, 2004 )

to all detractors, haven't you read the works of allen ginsberg? it's of similar form to this.. poetry can assume any form the writer desires. it is afterall, the poet's work. a rant can sound poetic too, and in this case to me it sure did.

( Posted by: inundatedgrace [Member] On: November 11, 2004 )

Poetic licence
There's a difference between poetic licence and incompetence. A writer can alter sentence structure, change the spelling of words, freely structure lines, spin phrases around one another, etc. in all sorts of different ways. What makes it poetic licence instead of incompetence is that it has a purpose, is deliberate, and accomplishes something new.

That's what Ginsberg, Burroughs, Joyce, et al had over, say, Jewel.

In this case, there seems to be no understanding or purpose behind Vlad's massacre of the language. Either the author doesn't understand the English language, or he was careless. I'm guessing the latter, actually. I've read some of his other work and it was much better than this. I have a feeling that this was a first draft, rushed out without proofreading or reflection.

Or maybe he was drunk when he wrote it. I used to drink heavily before writing and it led to disasters of this sort. (So I sympathize with ya if that's the case!)

( Posted by: Viper9 [Member] On: November 11, 2004 )

Poetry Vs Spell check
OK. So he spelled some words wrong. His grammer was not worthy of a blue ribbon from the Literaty Guild of America. If it was an assignment to be turned it for English Lit at a University he would not get a flawless grade.
BUT.... This was not an assignment. It was a creative writing peice. Not all poetry has an obvious flow. Not all poems are written in such a way that all understand the way it is to be read. He wrote something. It had content. Whether or not it is agreed with is each persons individual choice. That aside, was the poem something tha made you think? Did it make you feel? Did it leave you with something? Did you want to read it again? Did it make you want more? Ask yourself these questions. Thats what poetry is about. So what about the d*mn spell check. Everyone here has spelled something incorrect before. And as he said, English IS his second language.

( Posted by: Thinspiration [Member] On: November 12, 2004 )

Poetry + spell check
Writing is more important outside of school than in. At school, all that's at stake is a mark on one assignment. The real world is not so forgiving. If you submitted this to an editor or publisher, they'd probably toss it out within the first couple lines.

These were not grammatical or spelling errors for the sake of challengint the boundaries of style, and thus growing the field; it's just out and out bad writing, and bad writing kills poetry.

"...was the poem something tha made you think? Did it make you feel? Did it leave you with something? Did you want to read it again? Did it make you want more?"

No I did not want more. No I did not want to read it again. It left me with nothing and I felt very little beyond the fact that it was so horribly written that I didn't look for a deeper meaning. I could misconstrue so many different meanings based on his errors that it would be pointless to try and decipher it.

I understand artistic license, and I believe in growing the field beyond convention. An art that doesn't grow soon dies. But this isn't growing the art, it's just plain bad writing.

I come here for several reasons. One is to read excellent work, and another is to provide assistance to those trying to create excellent work. I could just blithely wander around assigning low numbers to poor pieces, but that wouldn't help anyone involved. It might only just demoralize them to the point of quitting.

If you want to tell someone their writing is great, when it isn't, that's your prerogative. I will not compromise my standards to pander to someone else's ego.

( Posted by: capulet [Member] On: November 12, 2004 )

NOT demoralizing?
So Capulet... you DON'T want to demoralize anyone to the point of quitting? Then i guess telling some one that their piece was "almost insulting to read," "it's just out and out bad writing, and bad writing kills poetry," "it was so horribly written that I didn't look for a deeper meaning," "it's just plain bad writing" all of that was just you "providing assistance" to the author? maybe you guys should lighten up a little about the spelling errors... you've said your piece about it... you don't need to beat a dead dog.

( Posted by: supergranny [Member] On: November 12, 2004 )

Going, going, gone!
The fact that this conversation is happening in front of the writer in unfortunate in that I've been forced to be blunt in defense of the English language, but writers have to be thicked skin I suppose.

I've made my point, I don't plan on saying much more about it unless one of the detractors of the English language makes some new, interesting point. I guess people are free to disagree on anything they want, including the place of grammar in writing, the colour of the sky, or if the holocaust really occured.

Have fun!

( Posted by: capulet [Member] On: November 12, 2004 )

i have absolutely nothing to say, both sides of the argument have voiced their opinions,
and i think it'll be obvious to anyone looking in where that line is between the people trying as hard as they can to stay as close to the middle of the path as possible, and the crazy ass people doing cartwheels off in the woods, looking for new thoughts, and mood setting words, speaking through, a used but hardly visible muse. That is were the future of writing is going, phycological ish.. booya casha!

( Posted by: IlichVladikov [Member] On: November 13, 2004 )

"front of the writer in unfortunate "
You forgot to check your grammer. oopsy

( Posted by: thinspiration [Member] On: November 13, 2004 )

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