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Lit.Org is now Moderated.
by Chrispian (Member) - published: September 26, 2004
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Category - Lit.Org
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Recent events here on the site had us turn on modertion to help get things back under control. During this time we decided to evaluate our rules and guidelines and how we do thing around here.

We are in the process of updaging the rules and guidelines to help make them much clearer as to what is accepted and what isn't. They should be popping up on the site today. Please don't hesitate to ask if a rule is unclear. You can email editor@lit.org.

Lit.Org is officially changing it's status to fully moderated.What this means is that every single thing posted at Lit.Org will now be reviewed before it is published on the site. All submissions, including comments, must follow the guidelines posted on the site. This will be familiar to you as we've always done this for original poems and stories. The biggest change is to the comments.

Comments are to be used to help writers improve their writing. This is not a forum and the purpose of posting on Lit.Org is to get feedback on your writing to help improve it. All off topic posts will be removed. The rules have been added above the comment box as a reminder.

Most of you won't even notice these changes as these have always been the rules and most of you have followed them and we thank you for it. We are excited about this change as it allows us to completely focus the site on it's goal and that's writers helping each other to improve.

If you have questions or comments you can send them to editor@lit.org.

-Chris


------
Chrispian H. Burks
Creator and Editor
http://www.Lit.Org


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Comments

The following comments are for "Lit.Org is now Moderated."
by Chrispian

Personal Vs. Personal
Hi Crowe,

I like the new guidlines posted above the comment box, it is very good idea.

Unfortuantely this is not a library on a University Campus.

I think this needs more reviewing, as the writing in any genre depends not on just good writing, but an understanding of the writer themselves, I think the personal touch is going to be lost on this site which is a shame, as the facets of humour, sarcasm etc will probably not be published as they do not reference the writing directly, although it is positive for the writer.

The new rules do not seem to consider the writers goals of being, instead simply the sites. The new rule seems a bit imbalanced.

Please could you look into this more, as it seems to be wonderful for stopping swear words from appearing, but not very useful for the development of artists on this site. Especially those new to it.

It does seem that although negative comments will be stopped, some positive ones will be lost aswell.

Alex

( Posted by: londongrey [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

re: Personal Vs. Personal
Alex,

We don't intend to delete positive comments. Here is an example:

Comment #1
"Nice poem. I really enjoyed it. I would change this word and that word, maybe tighten up the ending a bit".

Comment #2
"This poem sux. It's terrible. Don't write anymore".

Comment #3
"This poem is terrible. The rhyme was completely off. You misused this word and it seemed like you were in a rush through the whole thing. The thoughts from one stanza to the next seemed very disjointed. I really didn't like this piece, it needs a lot of work.

Comment #4
"I like blue. Blue is nice."

Comment #5
"This was a good poem. I liked it. BTW, did anyone see Sky captain this weekend? It totally rocked. I think I heard you say you were going to see it. What did you think?"

The above example is exaggerated to make it more clear, obviously. But comments #2 #4 and #5 would be deleted. Notice we left negative comments and positive ones too. The point is to get rid of the off topic discussion. If you guys want to get to know one other that's fine. But it doesn't not effect the critique. You don't go buy a book by an author and demand getting to know them before you decide if you like the book. It's not required to enjoying the writing or hating it. The Writing Forums are more of place for writers to hang out. Lit.Org is for criquiging the work.

-Chris

( Posted by: Chrispian [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

New Rules...
Thanks Crowe,

I see what you mean, unfortunately in the case of comment #5 when somebody slides off it is normally because of the piece:

-I really liked this poem about love, did you see the program on love the other day.

It's quite rare for a comment to appear as above.

I still think this site shall now be impersonal.

It should be up to the writer publishing to decide what appears underneath their work, I'm not going to complain about censorship or conspiracy theories.

Just that common courtesy seems to be lost to the writers.

I hope you understand.

Alex :-)

( Posted by: londongrey [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

re: new rules
You have a point. And in your case, if it was on topic we wouldn't delete it. If you write a review of a movie and wanted feedback on our review and people also talked about the movie, that's one thing. It's another when someone would like to take a poem and then turn the conversation to talking about movies. The point is we are trying to keep things on topic.

Moderation will stay on. Obviously we will have some learning to do on exacly how strict we'll be, don't jump to the conclusion we are going to sanitize the site. If you read the rules above the comment box they are still pretty lose. The point of all this is to focus on the writing.

( Posted by: Chrispian [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

re: peronal touch
Lilia, I've already talked with you via email. This is for discussing the issue at hand - the site is now moderated. It always has been to some extent. All sites are. I know not everyone will like this change and there is nothing I can or will do about it. This change stays and you can either get on board with it or not. Up to you.

Just to touch on the above examples again, they were EXTREME just to make a point. I know things will be much more subtle and harder to judge. We'll judge them on a case by case basis. We'll learn from the mistakes and tweak the process and rules as needed, but moderation is staying.

( Posted by: Chrispian [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

Peace at last!
Chris, us older members remember and appreciate that there is nothing new under the sun. The "new" rules have ALWAYS been the rules. That's what singled Lit out from the rest...a haven for serious poets...a site that first and foremost is about the WORK! The rest is what the forums are for...so come on over there and "try us...you'll like us!"

( Posted by: Beatrice Boyle [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

Crowe's New Fully Moderated Site
Hopefully you're right, and the site won't become sanitized and dead. I doubt it, but yet I hope.

Then again, combine this with the recent promotion of a certain someone whom many feel has wielded a club against those she disagrees with, and it's a slap in the face. Unintentional, of course.

Posting the guidelines above the comment box is a fabulous idea. It helps to know what the rules are before someone slaps you with them.

Finally, I loved you example comments! Hilarious! You should write things in that vein more often.

(please note that this comment is on topic and does not caontain any flaming)

( Posted by: Viper9 [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

re: Personal Touch
I spoke to you TODAY via email and, to my knowledge, have never spoken to your husband on this site or otherwise. I did speak to someone last night and today that I don't know who they are, if that was your husband, then yes, I have talked to him and didn't realize that it was. You emailed me a copy of your post this moring and I responded to it.

Obviously the new rules will take some adjustments and we'll need to learn where to draw lines. Hopefully it'll work out so that it makes the place better. I certainly feel that it will.

( Posted by: Chrispian [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

Peace at last
Bea, as always, thanks for your support. I feel good about this decision and feel it will make the site a much stronger place for writers.

( Posted by: Chrispian [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

viper9
Your comment is bordering on flaming in my opinion. In all honestly, probably should be deleted for it's almost veiled attack on Jessica. If you had left that out it would have been a perfectly valid comment. Just so you know, I was going to delete it. Jessica is the one who validated it. I'm also the one who deleted your previous posts. I guess you've got the wrong person on the hook for these crimes.

Your comment is a great example of how it can be on topic and off at the same time. You responded to my post and to my comments (the funny part), which is a perfect illustration of how to write a good comment, sans the insults to Jessica.

As to my funny comment examples, I probably write like that most of the time, even when I don't mean to ;)

( Posted by: Chrispian [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

uhm, yeh.
Seems like a lot of work to validate everything, including blogs and comments, and, quite honestly, the delay is not a personal favourite, but if it works then okay. I think this problem was blown way out of proportion in the first place, but whatever. The comment guideline box looks familiar; wasn't it there about a year ago and then switched off?

Anyway, I hope this solves the problems. I seriously doubt this will "sterilize" the site or anything like that; people mostly have followed the rules in the first place, at least since I've been around. So, uhm, the end probably isn't nigh. Have a beer. Take it easy.

( Posted by: die_daily [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

Crowe
Nothing in there is off topic. I'm talking about what led up to the so-called problem, and didn't mention anyone by name. Who did?

Oh.

( Posted by: Viper9 [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

re: naming
Just becuase you didn't include the name doesn't make it any less personal. You were off topic, discussing my comments as funny. It's a good example of how to stay in context while not entirely "on topic" The topic is moderation of lit.org, not how funny my examples were.

If I said "Guy we recelty elected President".. do I have to say his name? Seriously. Just because you try to be vague doesn't mean we'll let it slide. If you say "If it wasn't for jerk that runs Lit.Org" I think we'll know your attacking me and hiding behind the "I didn't say Crowe, please don't delete my work" defense won't come into play.

( Posted by: Chrispian [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

oh, viper, give it a rest
This site did fine before you, and it sure as hell did fine before me....and will do fine after both of us...Get off Crowe's back...and get off Jessica's...blame it all on me...I won't have to hear it.

Claire

( Posted by: clairesbest [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

re: uhm, yeh.
I think the're might have been a box like that before. It may have got lost in the translation over to the new design. But it's back for good or ill.

It's a bit more work, sure. But I think necessary. Thanks for the feedback.

( Posted by: Chrispian [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

Misunderstanding
Sorry, Crowe. You misunderstood me. I wasn't trying to defend myself at all -- no need.

The topic is moderation. I mentioned the problems with Jessica in the context, as part of what led to the perceived need for moderation. Not only in context, but on-topic as well.

I have no problem with Jessica beyond these incidents. I like her work, seh's commented on mine. Its all good. But power (even if it's just a little bit of power ona website) goes to people's heads. That's a problem, and it isn't solved by increasing that person's power!

That you don't see it as a problem is worrisome to me.

But whatever. I'm bored of this topic. As you said, we can accept the rules of the regime, however arbitrarily enforced, or leave. Whether I leave will depend on the degree of arbitrariness evident in how the rules are enforced.

And I realize no one will be boo-hooing if I end up leaving! I'm not an important person, and not one of the great presences on the site! The only person who will be upset by my defection will be me.

:)

( Posted by: Viper9 [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

Fair Enough
Viper, I see what your saying and how you meant it. I have a quote taped to my monitor:

"power Corrupts. Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely".

It's right above the quote that says:

"Give a man a mask and find out what he's made of".

These two things combine to form the Internet ;)

Like you, I hope this will work out in everyone's best interest. Lets give it a chance and see what happens. I have confidence that these decisions will help. But only time will tell. Lets get back to writing. Maybe I'll even start writing some around here so that I'm not just popping into to defuse situations.

( Posted by: Chrispian [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

Good point, Good suggestions
I agree. Love the combo of quotations by the way -- too true! The internet can be a potent tool for communication -- and for miscommunication!

Let's all get back to creating, and hope things work out for the best.

V

( Posted by: Viper9 [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

Staff
I am glad you guys did this. It seems justified since some folks either: 1. pushed the limits of what the site is about, or 2. intentionaly tried to blow up the site by their absolute disregard (and disdain) for the (restrained) control by the very people who had the vision to start this venture in the first place. You all have been a big help to me since I joined in June this year. If there are folks who can't handle the rules here, let them try to spend their cash for their own poetry website or whatever it is their Megalomaniacal minds desire and see if they can pull it off as well as you do. If not, get back to writin' and quitcherbitchin'. Just my .02

williamhill

( Posted by: williamhill [Member] On: September 26, 2004 )

Moderation
Moderation’s here to stay,
Though some of you may rue this day.
I take my problems to the top,
Though sometimes have to push a lot.

But I came here to write and learn,
Not to have all others spurn,
Attempts by me, by being rude,
This does not give my poems food.

Though no one's ever put me down,
Comments to others make me frown.
If you’re unkind to all this way,
Then please find somewhere else to play.

I know that this got ‘out of hand’,
And some think staff don't understand.
But censorship is never fun,
Indeed it sad that it's now done.

But what's the options, tell me please
These fools could bring Lit to it's knees
If things got worse there'd be no fun,
No point in staying, anyone!

We know we've got a friendly bunch,
Between us we could eat for lunch,
The ones who like to have their way
By hurting others everyday.

But Crowe and all his staff should know,
That when somebody has a go,
To cause a problem on this site
We'll help his staff to put things right.

But please, if you would wish us stay
Then listen when we have our say
We all try hard to stay in rule,
But were adults not still in school.

Between us all we have the best,
I know, I've tried out all the rest.
Let’s keep it so, that we may play,
And have some fun along the way.

Together we can be so strong
Divided then, we end our song
Staff and members, one and all,
Choose how to win...or how to fall!

( Posted by: ivordavies [Member] On: September 27, 2004 )

One Day at aTime
I have unpublished all but my last work.

I don’t like rules any more than anyone else

I know some of my work contained “things” I feel would be unfair within the Rules To save time for staff I have withdrawn the lot rather than keep it hidden in the past and I will review it and re-submit as I think fit

Of course staff can then make what they will of it…… I will accept it or leave.

I will not take sides in blame; to me everyone should be equal to a fault. To disrespect someone not abiding by the rules of this site purely means to me that the rules have not been applied in the first instance (Labour of love even has time restrictions) Characterization of people because they don’t fit on this site or because they live in harmony on site is pointless.

As for the staff…… You couldn’t pay me enough to do the job…. So whatever way they do it (for free ?) good on them. They are the ones that will keep the site alive or otherwise.

RJ

( Posted by: Fairplay [Member] On: September 27, 2004 )

The cure is worse than the disease
"Perserving the health by too strict a regimen is a wearisome malady." ~La Rochefoucauld.

I've slept on it, I've given it a chance, and my vote -that is if I had one- would be to drop a resounding, dead-thumping block of 'NO' on top of this moderation. It seems only to serve to slow this site down to a crawl, and further alienate members, particularly newbies. Frankly, I see this whole thing as being the result of something blown well out of proportion. Chris, you said something earlier about pleasing the majority; how 'bout starting up a poll in the WF and see how many people are pleased by this development? Or maybe use the rating system in this thread? Maybe it'll be closer than I suspect, maybe not.

London's suggestion is by far the best I've heard; let the writer decide, and let the staff jump in only when things have gotten out of hand (not in anticipation of things getting out of hand). That, and the addition of the guidelines, should be more than enough.

( Posted by: eleutheromaniac [Member] On: September 27, 2004 )

Guidelines
You know, I'm hoping (and expecting?) that many problems will be avoided by having the guidelines posted explicitly atop the comments box. That's a fine idea. Perhaps some of the problems arose because people weren't clear about what the guidelines were.

There's been so much bad blood and negativity over the last week or so (some of it from me, I realize), that I hope we can calm down and try to make this work. I was happy at Lit for over a year, and I'd like to get back to that state of being.

I know several writers have either left Lit or are considering leaving. I was. Now, I just want to write and hope for the best -- may sound like a cop-out to some, yeah. Hopefully some of the other disgruntled people will reconsider and we can all get back to reading, ritin, and commentin.

uh . . . constructively.

( Posted by: Viper9 [Member] On: September 27, 2004 )

The Newbie Speaks
I'm fairly new to this site. Since April I have posted Comments and stories and really bad poems. And I have loved every minute of it.

In high school, I hung out with writers who were miles ahead of me in talent. And I got to benefit from their wisdom. In college, my writer-friends took different paths and I fell in with a crowd that...anyway, I decided to quit writing.

"What's your point?" you politely, if impatiently ask. I'm getting there, so just hold your horses.

Eight years later, my husband talked me into writing again. He knows me too well. When I wrote "Sad Dog Story", my husband said, "Why are your writing about this thing that happened to us? I don't even want to talk about it!" I didn't know how to respond other than to say, "It makes me feel better to share." He said, and I quote, "I just don't understand you Writer People."

So, the point of this whole ramble is...I love being of the "Writer People". I love it here. I like getting feedback on my work and I like that people sprinkle their feedback with little personal comments. I hope that aspect of the site won't change. If my experience thus far is any indicator, I don't think it will change.

In my humble opinion, which is based on total ignorance of anything of websites or forums or whatever, I suggest the following:
1. Set a trial period for the new "moderation".
2. Be consistent with the rules during the trial period. You won't know what works if you do something different for different posts that are similar to one another.
3. At the end of the trial period, evaluate the new rules. You could take a poll of the writers. Or you could have the system tabulate how many comments, etc. that have been deleted. Or something else that's measureable.

That's just my two cents, if it helps. Like I said, I love it here. Thanks for building a site where we could even have this "conversation".

Thanks
Shelley
One of you "Writer People"

( Posted by: Shel [Member] On: September 27, 2004 )

Crowe/Moderation
Hi everyone... Bea said somewhere up the comment list that this is a place for serious poetry...This is a place for serious writing of all genres. I am a bit tired of the argumentitive, off topic stuff. The areas that seem to fuel this type of inflamatory discussion are the "blogs" and the "rants". Maybe those things should be only in the forums because people always talk about divisive issues that can only be fuel to fight...religion, politics, abortion, gay marriage....I love those discussions but they are not helping anyone write better. Maybe there can be a forum called "Fight Club"..."the first rule of Fight Club...don't talk about fight club (except in the forums"). One last thing, it seems that people don't give or take constructive criticism
very well. I want this to be a nurturing place but a creative learning experience too. Maybe people could comment more often about form, word choice, the voice of the piece, grammar...a little too much back-patting and coddling. I say, let's get real with each other gently and constructively. Thanks..Amy

( Posted by: arc [Member] On: September 28, 2004 )

Eleutheromaniac Rochefoucaulds quote!
About this whole issue is that there is no issue. It's obvious that this is not a democracy. Eleutheromaniac has said it all in his use of the quote by La Rochefoucauld:

"Perserving the health by too strict a regimen is a wearisome malady." ~La Rochefoucauld.

Enough said.

( Posted by: DieBaronHobskewward [Member] On: September 30, 2004 )





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