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we're Christians, we're molesters
we're patriots, we're protesters
we're anti-choice, we're anti-life
we're resuscitation, we're right-to-die
we're homeless, we're house-poor
we play for fun, we keep score
we rally, we riot
we're fat, we're on a diet
we're bi-racial, we're KKK
we're gun control, we're NRA
we're mullets, we're mohawks
we're action, we're all talk
we're folgers, we're frappaccino
we're cathedral, we're casino
we're home-cooked, we're instant gratification
we're atheists, we're congregations
we elect, we impeach
we want change, we get a speech
we're warm, we're nice
we're virtue, we're vice
we're safe, we're oblivious
we're reverent, we're lascivious
where we are born is just the luck of the draw
i'm healthy and free so i got the big straw

A/N: I am curious to know how
you perceive your own countrymen....
Write it !!

Amy Corless

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The following comments are for "America for Dummies"
by arc

America for Dummies... one way of perceiving it. I see it as more of a universal depiction of the very nature of the nation, which, while remaining poignant and meaningful, doesn't bring outside politica into the mix. I rather enjoyed this offering, Amy. Keep up the good work. It's nice to see that talent runs in the family. A fun piece, filled with honesty, expressed through image-filled verse that needs no metaphor to truly express the feelings implied.

Frieden und Liebe,

( Posted by: the Co.konspirator [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

big dummy
that would be me.
dare i respond my dear?
i am trying to decide whether it is worth the effort to explain freedom to the great unwashed.
i suppose you could consider me a victim of being birthed in this great country that many take for granted or less. i'm still cheesed off at the anarchists and commie enviro geeks who hate the very things that made us great. i don't like the idea of writing political poetry but...........
anyway, i really like your poem is what i really wanted to say.thanks.

( Posted by: williamhill [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

Whew! You had me scared for a minute. Thank you both very much. This was definitely not intended to be anti-American...I adore us!!!

( Posted by: arc [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

Dude, you're freakin' me out.

( Posted by: arc [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

a sorely needed poem
to remind the literate world that this country IS really special. Also because so many other cuntries that we've fed and resuscitated now hate and bite the hand that fed them. Because of their envy, conceit, and self-sanctimoniousness.

It IS OK to be artsy-fartsy AND love your country at the same time.

( Posted by: Teflon [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

Awesome Arc
What great fun this poem was for me, given all the political mumbo jumbo swirling around. Thank you Arc for this, boiled down and to the point, we are all these things, a rant without the slant, and a nice rhyme thrown in-what a great time for me to read this.

( Posted by: Odysseus [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

I enjoyed reading this, but I must admit I do get annoyed when people reel off a list and say, this is America!! Perhaps this is human nature in general?? I can certainly see the whole human population in this piece, except perhaps the KKK, if I ever met one of them I would get my rifle out and gun them down!! How is it sill legal for them to meet up etc!!???!!!

I'm not anti-American, but I am anti-insular, which I found on my travels to be the case quite often.

Teflon, I'm sorry dear but I do not think we have bit the hand that fed us.

Alex :-)

( Posted by: londongrey [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

So much to comment on Arc. Firstly, I enjoyed this poem, it kicked and buzzed. Although, I felt the scan stumbled with 'instant gratification' perhaps 'a fast-food nation' might be better - up to you, of course. I think self-parody is so important. It's a mistake to take yourself TOO seriously.
WilliamHill - commie envrio geeks and anarchists? The great unwashed? Political comments are nearly as controversial as political poems, friend.
Alec, I can't believe Teflon meant Britain among the ones biting hands.
My philosophy? It's a special world full of special countries full of special people. If use the word 'special' again, I'll short out my pc with saliva.
Take care, all you special people - oh damn!
Paul the Ogg

( Posted by: ogg [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

Hi...Thanks for the comment. You know, I agree about the "instant gratification" line....Damn...I wish I would have used Fast Food Nation. AWESOME! May I steal that?
London...I mean't just what you said. People are the same everywhere you go with only the cultural differences. This list of contradictions could go on forever. I, in no way wanted to make any political statement. Just happy to be a citizen of America and the world.

( Posted by: arc [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

Fairplay, Amy

Amy I'm sure was refering to the apparent change of nature in my poetry as she thought it was me winding up members of the site.

Under the circumstances I personally felt the comments were light hearted an not meant to be offensive to anybody. Your recent posts prove to all, your nature, which I know only too well.

I must apologies for my part in your 'baptism of fire, to this site, but you would have to go back over the months to see how much my style had apparently changed.


Maybe, I have let this go on too long, if so, my apologies, I know you in your writings and comments, and know that you comments did not mean to compare me with anybody except myself!

The profile of Fairplay and his heartfelt and selfless response to a most difficult time in his life has left me with a greater respect for him than I already had (if that s possible).

His style is different to mine, his heart is not.


( Posted by: ivordavies [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

Red, white, and booze
I liked this a lot because it seemed to deviate from most polital poems I've read in that most of them are just lists of things people find wrong with this country with no real unifying thought. However, with your piece, I got the feeling at the end that you're unifying thought was something along the lines of "Yep, we've got some good people and some messed up ones. Isn't it neat?" And I like that.

But... "i'm still cheesed off at the anarchists and commie enviro geeks who hate the very things that made us great." That baffles the crap outa me. But then, you didn't say that and this IS your poem's thread.
Two thumbs up!

( Posted by: Spider [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

Of course you can use the line. I don't think it's stealing when it's freely offered. Your comment about contradictions was on the nose too. It reiterates Charles Dickens' dry comments 'the age of wisdom, the age of foolishness' etc.
Take care
Paul the Ogg

( Posted by: ogg [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

Arc, This is Strong!!
So Full of strength and truth. I was very intrigued with this, sure made me think girl. You sure can WRITE!!!!!!! I am glad you came to Lit...go girl, go girl...

Yes it is easy to fear what we know not of...

My best to you,

( Posted by: Dareva [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

Hmmm, another exits Lit.
I saw Catlesfemme has left the site as well. But I think her last post was phenomanal, even printed it out...
Too bad you, Fairplay didn't leave a great post to exit by and leave us all astounded with the great intellectual mind of yours.
I was rather dumbfounded to read all that you had written. Just because I really didn't understand where all this energy was coming from. It could have been quite good with some polish. But none-the-less you did have some potential. I was waiting for you many submissions to comment, as I didnt' want to comment on your comments. I guess I have to.
But then, Fairplay you could be another personna as Catlesfemme was for some reason needed to let out some inner things, out for us to read, a cry for attention, help , for whatever reason, you did have some attention and did also receive comments. You read, you wrote, you responded and now you're is gone. For the most part, that is what is all about. Good luck wherever you may find your place in this literary world.
My best to you,


( Posted by: Dareva [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

Thank you for reading this bit! I know Pen,a title is so important and could not for the life of me think of anything clever so I went for the Flashy Headline instead. Dareva you are so sweet. Thanks alot. I always read your work...To
"Foulplay" I say, good day!!!

( Posted by: arc [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

I didn't much care for this political poem
It's really just a rhyming list
I skipped to end, once I got the gist
It's all been done, yet on and on you drone

So why did I not give this a six?
Because that would not the problem fix
I decided instead to give you a seven
Cause being generous will get me to heaven

"Foulplay" I say, good day!!!

I don't see the need for this
We've lost two today I see
Please do not make it three
I don't think it suits you, this bitterness

And while I'm commenting on comments...

Teflon wrote:
Also because so many other cuntries that we've fed and resuscitated now hate and bite the hand that fed them. Because of their envy, conceit, and self-sanctimoniousness.

Do you hear what I hear?
Do you hear what I hear?

Do you see what I see?
Do you see what I see?


( Posted by: eleutheromaniac [Member] On: August 26, 2004 )

Co.K, chillax, it's Ao.K
Find whatever vendetta you're creating for yourself toward other people

You caught us sheriff. Me, Fairplay, Claire, Arc and Tef are fixin' to have ourselves a shootout at the O-K Corral. It all started when Claire killed my papy, and I vowed revenge on her sista, Arc. It's a good thang you broke it up when ya did, or who knows what mighta happen'. To make it up to Arc, I bought 'er a fresh bouquet of smilies.


(And I thought my criticism was pretty constructive. I thought the point of the poem was made after the first couple of lines, and the rest was superflous. Also I've seen this done a few times before [the whole melting pot, diversity thing], so I didn't find it all that original. Maybe the 'you drone' part was 'over the line', but hey, not a lot of words rhyme with poem, gimme a break [and the poem itself was a fairwell homage to the dearly departed Fairplay: hope you reconsider]. And as for the extra little bits after that: for Arc, I thought it should be pointed out that Fairplay seemed to have went through a bit of trouble to comment on your poem, and you treated him like some weirdo psycho. I thought Fairplay deserved a little more respect than that. But hey, that's me. And Tef... well I just couldn't resist. Oh, and Claire... it ain't ova 'tween you 'n' me. See you in battle. Bring yo rhyme, if you can find it.)

( Posted by: eleutheromaniac [Member] On: August 27, 2004 )

I'll admit, now I'm laughing. It wasn't all aimed at you, some of it was residual pent-up frustration aimed at others on the site, and I lashed a bit too far...You just managed to find yourself in my crosshairs at a bad time because the trigger was ready for pulling. My humblest apologies to you, Jason.

Besides...I've been to the OK's not all it's cracked up to be, lol.

Chi restored, partly,

( Posted by: the Co.konspirator [Member] On: August 27, 2004 )

Eleutheromaniac...Fair enough. You don't have to like it, but, it is NOT a political poem. My point was just to say Americans are walking contradictions. Just like everyone else. Fairplay has been incoherently rambling on several different poems. He/She is just playing a game and messing around when some of us really want feedback and help. You seem overly concerned with Fairplay's departure...hhhmmmm... I deserve just as much respect as "Fairplay". He told me to "get a life" in an above comment...where was your "cry for justice" then? I'm not easily scared, I'm easily bored... This is a literary site still, right? Different opinions are fun but some people can't resist the urge to display their cyber road rage.

( Posted by: arc [Member] On: August 27, 2004 )

Ever since I turned to rhyme,
I've spoke of problems in the mind.
Misunderstandings now it seams,
Have once again killed all our dreams.
Why is it that, we just don't think,
Before our anger starts to brink.
Two people fine, I know quite well,
Have yet again, developed hell.
My hearts is saddened by this deed,
It's things like this that plant the seed,
That causes feuds, and wars and pain,
Just starting with a simple game.
I'd love to jump to one's defence,
And not just sit here on the fence.
But all except you two can see,
The problems yours, and not for me.
So look at all you've learned since birth,
And let your minds bring 'peace on earth.


( Posted by: ivordavies [Member] On: August 27, 2004 )

Hi Everyone...
I have no feud with anyone at all. Why do you feel so strongly about being involved in something between me and another person? Is there more to this ? I love your work and of course I will continue to read it. Now I think I realize why you are so edgy with me...However, the apology I gave to Pen was heartfelt and sincere. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. I don't hold grudges. They are destructive. The Fairplay game just went on a little too long. I honestly love the back and forth when someone doesn't like my work. It is the other stuff that is tiresome. After I post something I usually want to change it anyway. Can we be nice now? I get it...Turnabout is Fairplay...

( Posted by: arc [Member] On: August 27, 2004 )

I know what you mean. I feel like running away too. If we have power to be nasty then, we also have the power to be kind. I am changing my personal code of "Lit Ethics" right now. I will not participate in feuds or personal attacks EVER again. Writing and commenting...that's it!!!Anyone with me?

( Posted by: arc [Member] On: August 27, 2004 )

Why do you feel so strongly about being involved in something between me and another person? Is there more to this ?

Click. It was a joke then, but after this little feud, and the comments in Jessica's recent blog, and putting a stop to Tef's avatar readings, it seems like it's becoming more than just a joke. I guess Fairplay is an 'unwriter' with 'unorthodox behavior'. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it seems like there is something unsettling about the sometimes stifiling, and sometimes elitest nature of Lit. Fairplay expresses himself in a unique (and in my opinion refreshing) way, and that he has been attacked because of it is disturbing to me.

But like I said, I think my 'strong' feelings about this have been overblown. All I said (originally) was that I thought the kick you gave Fairplay on the way out the door was unnecessary.

I wouldn't say ignoring someone is the answer either, Tina. As that reeks of elitism, and assumes the other person is somehow at fault.

Arc, you never asked Fairplay to change the way he commented, or to not comment on your poetry. In fact, you didn't even treat him like a real person (I realise that the unique circumstances are partly to blame, but still...)

[quote]Do your worst but ask ME first
Iíd be the first to say
But of those yet donít ask donít get
Canít take the pain away[/quote]

Whatever, that's my two cents.


( Posted by: eleutheromaniac [Member] On: August 27, 2004 )

You're right. I should have addressed it directly.

( Posted by: arc [Member] On: August 27, 2004 )

For Or Against
Liked this poem Arc, a reminder that people are people (wherever you go) The outside world needs a reminder that US is something more complex than Bush and his Army... and we got that now. I think the way you answer all these (odd and heated) comments shows you as an reflected writer. nmst

( Posted by: DrKilldare [Member] On: August 27, 2004 )

Thank you very much for the sweetness.

( Posted by: arc [Member] On: August 28, 2004 )

I was thinking to write something on India, my country. Now, after reading this I should try it out. I should say that ur poem was very nice.

I think my poem might take time and it might not be as good as urs for sure. Anyway, read it when it does appear.

Thanks...for tring out something really different.Did U get inspiration from computer for dummies, etc ?

( Posted by: G.S.VASUKUMAR [Member] On: August 29, 2004 )

Thank you for the comment. YES!!! I will read yours when you submit it. That will be so fascinating. I actually DID get the title from the "for Dummies" books.

( Posted by: arc [Member] On: August 29, 2004 )

America for Dummies
This is damn good. If everybody is wrong, then nobody is right. we are a nation of contradictions and confusions. I like this.

( Posted by: DieBaronHobskewward [Member] On: September 16, 2004 )

dumb ass americans
how bout we are pathetic, to allow children to be homeless, to allow seniors to die because they can't afford thier meds, to allow soldiers to patrol another country while drug dealers run the streets of america. To allow people to adopt kids from china, when there are plenty of kids around the corner who need parents. this was a nice write, but die baron sized it all up with the confusion and contradiction comment, america doesn't stand for what the concept once was, we have lost touch with "we the people, now it's we who have the most and screw everybody else, if we don't wake up soon and get back to the basic concept, no one will have anything....Bob:)

( Posted by: poetryman [Member] On: September 16, 2004 )

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