The following comments are for "Was This Now" by paxelius
Although I didn't understand the 1. line, I really liked this short poem. Nice jump between past and present. And the question "Why did I leave you" when I could have had you is ever so sadly important..
Posted by: DrKilldare [Member] On: July 12, 2004
Claire: I'm glad you're so quick to forgive my misspellings. You warm my heart with your words.
DrKilldare: Happy to hear you liked it.
Windchime: Thanks for your appreciation !
Posted by: paxelius [Member] On: July 13, 2004
If poetry is the art of suggesting rather than meaning served with spoon
Agree with Codbeef that poetry may be defined as the art of suggestion. You don't have to hide ('shroud' - what a word) your meaning. But a poem that gives room for the complexity of language, is far more rewarding to spend time on.
No excuses please!
Lennart: Personally I have no interest in complexity of language, I understand where you're coming from and can easily respect that you find that rewarding. I'm more into the sharing of life's moments expressed in poems, be that in any form which is appropriate. I find great delight in simplicity and short poems that touch me without too much words.
In this short poem of mine I wanted to express a heartfelt emotion, it had to be direct and unveiled. (Codbeef: To suggest that is like 'meaning served with spoon' is just silly)
Further, you say that "poetry may be defined as the art of suggestion" - I dislike this eagerness to limit the art. What you're really saying (in this context based on Codbeefs comment) is that this poem of mine is too direct, not suggestive enough and hence not a poem - This is folly on your part.
With reference to this poem VS your poem, I find it obviouse that you have read my poem first and very likely set out to write your own version in a more 'suggestive' mode. Well, that's ok. It probably succeded in the style you wanted, but it's close to plagiarism. I really wouldn't mind if you could be frank about it -- BUT, you should not try to hide this fact by some vague excuse.
Posted by: paxelius [Member] On: July 17, 2004
What I mean
rather than plainly informing the reader of what thoughts are in the writers head while writing, the poet should always (and this is not limiting anything, rather possibility-expanding) set out to suggest or attemptingly recreate the emotions and athmospheres that made you want to sit down and write in the first place. To me your poems offers nothing no challenge to thought/imagination, it's a flat, lifeless piece of information, it doesn't stir anything, to use the words of Ford Prefect trying to instantly enlighten the Vogon guard come to throw him and Arthur Dent into deep space. I don't think old-timer-phrases like "leave you be" lifts it either. Am I beeing crude? Well, I was challenged.
Ok, beefman, I understand that the two of you have gotten into a discussion about what poetry is and should be, and I'm glad that the level of your debate sometimes makes it very worthwhile to read. But I think you're too harsh on Pax here: "it's a flat, lifeless piece of information", that's rude to say about someone else's work, can't agree with you there.
Posted by: DrKilldare [Member] On: July 18, 2004
Codbeef (or is it Shapeshifter now):
You talk like one bereft of his senses.
This low critique is a disgusting attack on a personal level. You have no soul nor heart.
Posted by: paxelius [Member] On: July 18, 2004
Well now, pax
As I said, think codshifter is too harsh. But at the same time, pax, I find your use of antiquated words a bit annoying ("bereft?") If you want to win an discussion, maybe you should express yourself with words understandable for others than the professors..
Posted by: DrKilldare [Member] On: July 20, 2004
DrKilldare: Let's not start any quarrel, I don't want to win any discussion. I'm tired of having to defend my choice of words. I've only used whatever pops into my mind, trying to be as clear and precise to the point as possible. I don't think 'bereft' is antiquated, it is a perfectly legitimate word in the context where someone has been 'bereft of his senses', ie. lost his reasoning. English is not my native language.
Posted by: paxelius [Member] On: July 20, 2004
me, Paxelius. I assure you, I didn't INTEND to plagiarise your poem. But as Ingi pointed out to me in an email, when I subtitled MY poem "A stanza exercise, it can be read as a critique of your form. At the same time as i "use" your poem as a muse, I criticise your form! But again, I assure you of my (good) intentions. If my subconscious took up your piece as a muse, it should be a sign of support. And not a criticism.
the reason why I subtitled my poem "A stanza exercise" is as an answer to a debate around DrKilldare's poem 'I Have Heard about You'. He dared or challenged me to write a "strict stanxapoem". Like you yourself say: "I've only used whatever pops into my mind, trying to be as clear and precise to the point as possible".