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tomorrow finds me
endlessly in waiting for
the next tomorrow

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The following comments are for "Tomorrow"
by dhazelrig

I think it is
Um, I do count 5, 7 and 5 syllables. But I don't like haiku's as an artform. I think they're kinda boring. No knock on your work. It's just not my cup of tea. For that matter, neither is country or pop music.


( Posted by: Richard Dani [Member] On: March 5, 2002 )

Bounderies of Art
If art were about strict rules, there would be no art in the first place. Most of what is considered the best of art comes from those who broke convention. I appreciate that you like the work. We have now moved on to a discussion of boundries of art. If I knew Japansese and wrote it in Japanese, your arguement might be right. But I contest that a haiku follows these rules based on what ever the writers language is. What you are suggesting is that if it is not written in Japanese, it is not a haiku. Below is a segment of an article on haiku's:

"5-7-5 syllables in 1st-2nd-3d lines.

Also optional: firstly, even Basho broke that rule. Secondly,
we don't write in Japanese -- the average Japanese syllable has dif-
ferent length and bears the different "amount of meaning" as compa-
red to those of other languages; thus "holy 17" can't be saved so
formally. When poets write or translate haiku into their language
they try to save haiku spirit, and somehow imitate the Japanese form
(the length of the lines, the breaks) - but at the same time they
take into account the common patterns of their own language so that
it sounds natural. This way most of Russian translations of classic
Japanese haiku have about 20 syllables; on the other hand, a haiku
in English, according to W.Higginson's "The Haiku Handbook", is bet-
ter when it's about 12 syllables:

old pond...
a frog leaps in
water's sound


See, there is no need to stuff it with more syllables; everything is
clear and reads well. Besides, the use of cutting word (kireji) is
demonstrated. Kireji is a special word in Japanese that indicates
the pause, the end of the clause. It's not translated into English,
but can be imitated with punctuation ('...', '--', ':', '!') or with
proper line breaks (usually kireji splits haiku into two parts,
the pause occurs at the end of the first or the second line)."

( Posted by: dhazelrig [Member] On: March 5, 2002 )

d, Nice work.

Actually, English rules are 5-7-5 (17) for the most part. I've done a good bit of research because I wanted to write a program to generate Haiku. But the math and logic is just beyond me. Also, the rules are too subjective, even in Japanese. But as a general rule that I've found around the web, and I was tought in school, was 17 syllables.

But again, this is just subjective stuff appearently and like all poetry, is about the meaning. I'll likely adhere to the 17 rule. I like the challenge of conforming to that restriction. The fun for me is trying to create a poetic little Haiku with as much meaning and emotion as possible. But that's just me. I added this category after I searched and searched for a good Haiku list to use for random Haiku's for the site. But I figure we can write out own! You haven't hit any hot button - it's just that you've hit on a topic that doesn't seem to have a clear answer and that suits me fine.

( Posted by: Chrispian [Admin] On: March 5, 2002 )

Haiku Conversations
I'm not trying to be negative against you, I'm just striking up a conversation on the subject of what defines a "Haiku". Like Crowe said, you haven't hit any nerves, but the topic is debatable.

( Posted by: dhazelrig [Member] On: March 5, 2002 )

thoughtful ^_^
I liked this because it was simple and thoughtful, as a Haiku it is in my opinion successful, as without applying forcefully the rules, you have the whole essence of said artform, in the piece above.

This reminds me of being at work on mondays... and being sure that i'll never make it to friday :P

Ju =*_*=

( Posted by: De`esse [Member] On: March 6, 2002 )

haiku haiku haiku

I can dig it. And I wish the response I had written made it here. The one you see above was my second attempt and I did't feel like re-typing all that stuff tht I had! Damned browser crashed ;)

But I totally agree that the rules aren't strict. That's why I decided not to write a random Haiku generator - the rules are just to scattered and the logic to create a Haiku that makes sense.

As for this site, We won't impose any rules on Haiku, as long as the spirit seems to be there, we'll take it =)


( Posted by: Chrispian [Admin] On: March 6, 2002 )

Jeff's Haiku
When making Haiku
best not to think so damn much
Just let it happen

Haiku's are better
When listening with your heart
rather than your mind

( Posted by: Jeff [Member] On: March 6, 2002 )

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