God and Evil.
by colinbaker62 (Member) - published: January 5, 2009
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If all the evil and suffering in the world is for a purpose; if it is all God's will in the greater scheme of things (ie. teleological), then humans in my opinion, are suffering merely for the sake of God's aesthetic satisfaction. For unlike God, humans cannot see the wider picture, and for whatever reason, God refuses to show us.

Moreover, for many living people evil is just that, evil! For God on the other hand, evil must logically be good!

Moreover, if God has to demonstrate in concrete terms to all us earthly beings that which constitutes evilness , then why 'on earth' is He not more sensitive about matters? I mean, did He really have to drop an H-bomb on bits of Japan or more recently, bring the might of the American military to bare on a defenseless people in the Middle East in order to prove a point? Haven't there been enough examples of evilness over the past thousand years or so, to last us all a lifetime?

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The following comments are for "God and Evil."
by colinbaker62

re; Colinbaker
Modern apologists often argue that God (in their eyes) puts mankind through so much terrible kaka in order for us to grow, as one cannot truly know happiness without knowing strife and loss.

I admit there's a certain degree of logic to the idea itself. Strife and conflict tend to bring out BOTH the best and worst in people, and tend to help people remember just how good the good things in the world are afterward. Lord of the Rings would have been a pretty dull book if Frodo Baggins had lived out a pleasant, dull life in the Shire, and so forth.

But all of this doesn't (for me) solve the central problem, which is that the Good vs. Evil game is essentially a Zero Point Game- that is, a game where you can either Win or Lose. So instead of working for the betterment of Mankind, or for self-actualization, or for the sheer hell fun of it, you find yourself working simply to fulfill the Conditions of Winning as dictated by the authority of your choice or upbringing.

I can't see humanity making it much further on Zero Point game conditions. On the other hand, in the case of a Non-Zero game, what benefits an individual benefits the whole, and vice versa, and the purpose of playing the game is to *continue* playing the game (a good example of this comes in the form of the popular RPG World of Warcraft). Of course, this would mean a reevaluation (and probable sacking) of the ideas of 'good' and 'evil', but I like to hope that humanity is reaching a point where we can take responsibility for our own actions.

Whew! Who left this soapbox here...?

p.s. - colinbaker, is that your name, or are you a big Doctor Who fan?

( Posted by: Beckett Grey [Member] On: January 5, 2009 )

Many thanks
John, many thanks for these comments.

( Posted by: colinbaker62 [Member] On: January 6, 2009 )

What is good?
I don't know. We are dealing with a limited vocabulary. I consider 'good' and 'evil' as mostly subjective terms within the human experience, and not dictated by the whims of a god. Once we leave the dynamics of our own desires (if that's possible) then we may see more clearly that (IMHO) good and evil are elements of our experience and do not touch God directly.

I do not think suffering exists to please the aesthetics of an evil deity. I think good and evil cannot be defined in a divine context. When good and evil happens it happens to us and is defined by us. If God hated what we hated, why would he want it any more than us? So, he must not feel as we do. This makes for an ambiguous God, and not a very biblical one. Who can love a God that doesn't care about what I care about? But this is the only logical answer I find acceptable.

On the other hand- the bible tells us that God wants us to defeat evil. We ask God, 'deliver us from evil.' Therefore God is not evil, but He allows it. Perhaps He did not create it, but He allows it. Perhaps He does not like it either, but He allows it. He allows it, but He defeats it. In this view, God is the way to overcome the world of suffering. In the divine sense, everything becomes good Through God. It is transfigured. This is the only religious answer I find acceptable.

I think the answer falls more on the logical side, but, because I am involved, I must consider the religious answer as well. This is the paradox of mixing the human experience with that which cannot BE experienced. Paradox must be implied in any answer.

Thank you for your topic.

( Posted by: malthis [Member] On: January 20, 2009 )

Thanks Malthis...
Many thanks for your thoughts....

Colin

( Posted by: colinbaker62 [Member] On: January 23, 2009 )

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